U of M MEN'S BASKETBALL: 2018-2019

[*JD*]

Craig Ross has been making the case all year on the WTKA/mgoblog roundtable. I like that group's commentary -- numbers people arguing with narratives people, of different ages and eras of Michigan fandom, and they're not afraid to disagree with each other.

I don't see it. Teske's been very valuable but those guys were 1st round picks for a reason. I'll give you Tim McCormick, as his stats were not as impressive as I thought. I'm scratching my head wondering why he was taken #12 overall. That year was really my introduction to Michigan Basketball. I had watched Mike McGee and Michigan take on Arkansas a couple of years earlier, in what I believe was CBS's first national broadcast, but around '83 was when I saw my first game in person. A friend from Tappan babysat for Frieder's kids and used to get something like 50 or 100 tickets from him. So, I caught 3 or 4 games that season.

Anyway, here are Teske's current stats: 9.8 PPG, 6.8 RPG, .8 APG, .7 SPG, and 2.2 BPG. 52% FG, 33% 3-PT.

The other four's stats as Juniors. Stats that are better than Teske's are in blue. Stats that are the same, in maize:

Tim McCormick: 12.1 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 1.0 APG, .4 SPG, and only .5 BPG. He did shoot 58% from the floor. There wasn't a 3-PT line in the B1G until the '86-'87 year.

Roy Tarpley: 19.0 PPG, 10.4 RPG, 1.6 APG, .9 SPG, 2.2 BPG. 53% FG. It's amazing that Roy didn't come out after his Junior year. I guess that loss to Villanova made a difference.

Terry Mills: 11.6 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 2.8 APG, .5 SPG, 1.3 BPG. 56% FG 0-2 from 3. I remember both! One would've beaten IU at home and the other was tipped in by Higgins to beat Illinios in the Final Four. Pretty amazing to think that he only took 4 total 3's at Michigan yet became a bit of a 3-pt specialist in the NBA. He would've loved this era of basketball. Also, Mills & Rumeal were Prop 48'ed so his Junior year was his 2nd year playing.

Juwan Howard: 20.8 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 2.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, .7 BPG. 56% FG, 14% 3-PT. Juwan was simply a monster, especially in the tournament, averaging 29.0 and 12.8 boards in 4 games.

Teske gets the nod over Mitch McGary, though I think Mitch was robbed of the opportunity to be more. Teske is our best rim-protector since Epke Udoh in Beilein's first year. I don't think Teske touches Juwan and Roy. Mills did more overall, I think but you could certainly make a strong case that Teske is more valuable to this team. However, when Fisher took over, he started using Mills more on the block and we don't win a title without him. A loss to UNC if he'd been pedestrian is entirely possible, if not likely.

The good news for Teske is that he hasn't finished writing his history here. If he eclipses any of these guys, that would be awesome.

[*JD*]

I wasn't talking about post-season. The max-poss-loss total is 5. No sense in predicting the post-season, so don't worry. You can buy me beer now.

Visit the Mitten, sir! (or hire a family photographer)

[WM Wolverine]

Teske is really underrated but he's not near some of those guys... lots of his value comes from his defense which doesn't show up in those numbers.

[*JD*]

Teske is really underrated but he's not near some of those guys... lots of his value comes from his defense which doesn't show up in those numbers.

It does to a point. Blocks and steals. It would be nice if there was an Opponents FG% vs.-stat but we know he blocks and changes shots. He also has trouble against more mobile C's but there aren't many in the B1G. I think M was doubling down some on Fernando in the 2nd match-up but Maryland still should've approached the game more like they did in the 2nd half of the first match-up. I'm thankful they didn't. I also hope we don't face Wisky in the B1G tourney. I'm good with a split there.

[hack]

Will do!

[hack]

I'm not saying I agree with Ross, but he's made the case over a few shows and done so intelligently.

We'll see. Hopefully Teske has one more year to work his way up the all-time M center charts. It has to be recognized that what you want out of a center now is different (as evidenced by Mills 0-2 career from 3 in AA), and that he provides every single thing a modern one should, save for that he could be more aggressive when a smaller guard is switched on to him.

[*JD*]

Yeah, we haven't seen if he has any post-game but he's great on the pick-and-rolls. I suppose we should also count Mo Wagner as a C and I'd rank him above Teske too, despite his defensive deficiencies. He became at least decent last year.

[*JD*]

BTW- How fun was Mitch McGary?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czm7_b5jdi0

I still can't believe he's not in the NBA. I know he had back-issues but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't more of a mental health situation.

[*JD*]

Maybe Mitch's highlight as a pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwGizSga9eY

[WM Wolverine]

Something isn't right with McGary that isn't talent... We only had him for his freshman season pretty much and he was a reserve other than the postseason.

[hack]

McGary's just star-crossed. Can't stay healthy, struggles with the ADHD. What a shame how it's gone for him, but he did get first-round money, so that's a pretty nice head start on a post-basketball life.

[hack]

I think Teske by next year will be clearly seen as better than Mo.

[Detroit Dan]

Defense is 50% of the game, and there aren't many statistics for that until recently. I would probably rank Howard and Tarpley above Teske, but those guys did not shoot 3s. Mills was a 3 point specialist in the NBA, and didn't hit a single one in as a junior in college? That boggles the mind. (Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the stats posted?)

If there's one thing we've learned in the Beilein era (last 10 years of college and pro BBall), it's that 3 point shooting by centers is a massive advantage. Of course, Bill Laimbeer and the Pistons knew this back in the '80s, and won a couple of NBA titles because of it.

[*JD*]

Defense is 50% of the game, and there aren't many statistics for that until recently. I would probably rank Howard and Tarpley above Teske, but those guys did not shoot 3s. Mills was a 3 point specialist in the NBA, and didn't hit a single one in as a junior in college? That boggles the mind. (Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the stats posted?)

If there's one thing we've learned in the Beilein era (last 10 years of college and pro BBall), it's that 3 point shooting by centers is a massive advantage. Of course, Bill Laimbeer and the Pistons knew this back in the '80s, and won a couple of NBA titles because of it.

Lambs had his best year of 3-point production in 1990 and that was only .7 makes a game. I wouldn't say the Pistons won titles because of that but it was a nice wrinkle. For what it's worth, he still led the team in makes from beyond the arc! That said, if he'd come up during this era, he'd be taking 5 or 6 a game instead of 2.

Anyway, you aren't misinterpreting the stats. I did, however point out that there wasn't a 3-point line when Tarpley played. Juwan was a post-player with some outside range but it didn't extend past the arc. He was still probably a better jump-shooter than Teske. It was just he was making 10-14 footers (ala Loy Vaught) instead of 3's.

[*JD*]

Juwan Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFyJU1Ht-sM