Michigan @ Indiana, 10/14/17, Noon ET, ABC/ESPN 3

[Cody_Russell]

The play calling, and probably play design(mostly in the pass game) is still ass.

Lose Jedd Fisch, add Pep Hamilton. Play design matters. It hasn't been good this year with the pass offense.

...

Is it going to take Peters / McCaffrey coming in and struggling to get most here to blame more than just QB?
- Wilton Speight is at QB, "He sucks"
- John O'Korn is at QB, "He sucks"
The constant between those two QBs is the O-line, WRs, and play calling... a simple QB change isn't going to solve the offensive struggles ... especially when M will need some points next week.

[Hannibal]

Next year's team has to start winning some fucking rivalry games. Get a QB ready.

This. Time to build for the future. Whoever will be the QB next year or the year after that needs to be starting the rest of the year. Pick the better of Peters or Mac and let him take his lumps. If the game is a 35-3 fiasco then you are likely no worse off and the guy potentially learns a thing or two.. Even though Braxton Miller wasn't very good in his freshman year, the experience that he got was huge and came in handy during Urban's 12-0 season.

Lose Jedd Fisch, add Pep Hamilton. Play design matters. It hasn't been good this year with the pass offense.

...

Is it going to take Peters / McCaffrey coming in and struggling to get most here to blame more than just QB?
- Wilton Speight is at QB, "He sucks"
- John O'Korn is at QB, "He sucks"
The constant between those two QBs is the O-line, WRs, and play calling... a simple QB change isn't going to solve the offensive struggles ... especially when M will need some points next week.

There's definitely more to the offensive stink than the QBs. I wouldn't look at a QB change as a move for2017 as much as one for 2018 and beyond. If we do not see another QB this year then Speight becomes the starter next year by default and then we are starting a new guy again in 2019.

That is going to be one ugly beat down. The pedophiles feel so much misplaced righteous anger about Joe Pa not knowing that there was anything wrong with Sandusky playing hide the pickle with young boys in the shower, and the penalties that ensued, that they are on a mission to finish their delusional healing process

This is about as good an explanation that I have seen for Penn State's totally unjustified moral outrage and unearned "Us Against the World" mentality.

It's interesting-- it was the year three loss at Penn State, in the game where Michigan's secondary couldn't cover anything, that convinced a lot of people that Rich Rodriguez and his staff needed to go. It was a year three loss at Penn State that confirmed that something had gone seriously wrong within Brady Hoke's program. It is year three of Jim Harbaugh's tenure at Michigan. I can only hope this Penn State game is not a similar harbinger of doom.

It will be similarly shitty but no matter what happens, we're at our final destination, coaching-wise.

[froot loops]

You guys should lose a couple of games before throwing in the towel. You can still win a Big Ten title. Your wide receivers are young and your QB play is subpar, but you can grind games out defensively. You got the win, move on.

[CGVT]

You guys should lose a couple of games before throwing in the towel. You can still win a Big Ten title. Your wide receivers are young and your QB play is subpar, but you can grind games out defensively. You got the win, move on.

Exactly. I don't know what they are expecting.

[Hannibal]

Michigan's defense isn't that dominant and even if they were, we still aren't going to sweep OSU, PSU, and Wisky, which is what we would need to do to win the B1G. You need at least one other pillar on which to rest in order to Tresselball your way to a championship (e.g. Maurice Clarett, Connor Cook, etc). Saying that we are mathematically alive to win it is a pretty empty statement..

[Jeff Buchanan]

I'm not sure what's the difference between limited and sucks is, but right now M's offense sucks. End of story. Sucks.

An offense that has a 200 yard rusher and 271y rushing doesn't suck when its done against a defense that has given up 3.6ypc average in 5 games. M rushed for over 7ypc. IU's run defense isn't chopped liver. PSU is giving up just over 3ypc. There's probably some equivalence based on that measure.

I'm not going to argue with you over your silliness. M's offense has problems. The reality is, just like I said, they're not going to win going forward with no passing game ..... and that is what they have with O'Korn.

You're also talking about shit you have no idea what you are talking about with the comments about scheme matters unless you've got a seat in M's coaches meeting so, kindly STFU. We don't know what schemes Pep Hamilton is doing with the passing game.

We both do know Speight and O'Korn are, well, not good. This based on their performances that we can both see and judge. Saying schemes, by design, are messed up can't be known except by savants and those arguing that, including you, are not one of those. They might be, but they also could be poorly executed...... that would fit the OL, now, sack rates, pressures and TFLs considered wouldn't it. I'll go with that as the most likely problem on pass plays.

I'm not making apologies for this team. It's not good but, IMO, its not about any of the things that feelings ball, drive by posters with hot takes think it is ....... and I'm pretty sure coaches and insiders or those with a keener analytic eye than any of us have would agree with that notion.

[Jeff Buchanan]

You guys should lose a couple of games before throwing in the towel. You can still win a Big Ten title. Your wide receivers are young and your QB play is subpar, but you can grind games out defensively. You got the win, move on.

Thanks for that ...... a lone voice of reason among the doubters.

[froot loops]

When the Spartans won the Rose Bowl, they certainly weren't resting on having Connor Cook. Their offense was positively putrid in the 1st half of the season. People in this forum were laughing at the dumpster fire of MSU. Shit changes. You may not sweep those teams, but lose a couple games before being all defeatist about it.

You defense may get exposed, you haven't played a murderers row of offenses, but get exposed first before throwing in the towel.

[froot loops]

Thanks for that ...... a lone voice of reason among the doubters.

I do kind of agree with talent on the suckiness of the offense, but that can change. Higdon is starting to show something.

[Hannibal]

Gentle reminder that our QB the last two weeks is 26 of 55 for 256 yards, 0 TDs, and 3 INTs. He had one great game in relief but he has passed for less than 60 yards in two out of his three starts -- in both of those games he had running game support. So we're not exactly facing a lot of downside risk by playing a different QB here.

Less than 60 yards in two out of three starts. Mind blowing.

[iam416]

You don't know what you're talking about, froot!

Whatever, Buchanan. You keep posting about how questionable OSU's offense is (and I agree). OSU put up 600 against IU with almost perfect balance. Bravo.

[hack]

Winning with O'Korn implies keeping him on a leash so short, and calling plays so conservatively, that there's no real loss putting in the greener QB. As long as that QB can handle snaps and RB exchanges, what exactly are would you be losing going with someone greener? We know without question that the coaches have so little trust in O'Korn that it's hard to imagine simplifying the playbook further still for Peters or McCaffrey to run. If those kids can't handle snaps and RB exchanges and throw credible safe routes in a simple-playbook environment in which we're content to let the defense do the talking, we're fucked anyways. I don't see it as throwing in the towel at all. You're just going with a greener version of the same no-passing-game option.

Also note: field-position football requires a good punt game, which right now we don't have.

[iam416]

Oddly cogent argument. Personally, I'd go young. Everything is very much not J O.K.

[WM Wolverine]

If it's close, I'd go with the more talented QB. Given how bad O'Korn looks, it's hard to imagine most freshman, red-shirt freshman are going to be much if any worse. In Happy Valley is not where you want your first start to be, however...

Speaking of that game, no confidence we don't get embarrassed. We'll find out how good the defense really is, whether it's good or really good. Can't see M's offense getting in the end zone more than once without some luck and/or a short field... Penalties were worrisome (~140 yards) but looks like a 1-game blip.

[hack]

Who has the best chance of providing a passing threat against OSU? That's the guy you go with. If it's because O'Korn is what he is, and a frosh or redshirt frosh has much more shot at improvement from then to now, that's reason enough