Michigan Football, Team 138, 2017 Season.

[Rocky Bleier]

The guy doing the interview looks like he borrowed his big brother's shirt and suit coat. Someone posted this, which is pretty funny considering the criticism:

Michigan's records in Toomers last 3 years there?

1993 8-4
1994 8-4
1995 9-4

[Cody_Russell]

2-1 vs Ohio State.

[froot loops]

Froot, I appreciate your post. Here are my thoughts:

I think most of us here know exactly what we got with Harbaugh but, I think there are some fair criticisms of what he's done or not done in his first three years. Frankly, I think JH knows what's wrong and what to do about it better than any of us but still ...... it's fun to talk about it.

I don't expect Harbaugh to ever go Air Raid (Leach, Boykin), Read Option Spread (RichRod), Smash Mouth Spread (ufm). I expect him to stay with a Pro-Style offense. Let me be perfectly clear about these definitions. They're moving targets because they have innate variability depending on who the coach is and get changed (Hybrided) all the time - esp. "Spread" type offenses. I posted a decent article from Football Study Hall on The Four Main Schools of Spread Offenses so, that's what I'm using.

Pro-Style offenses have spread concepts. It's never black and white between pure spread offenses and pro-style offenses. NEVER. Complicating factors include the integration of power running and IZ/OZ running within spread offenses and read option or read pass option plays within pro-style offenses. It can be utterly confusing to talk about "what kind of offense is Harbaugh going to run......" without nailing down terms.

The one thing that is not going to change at M under Harbaugh is that he will base out of a NFL pro-style offense best described as some combination of wide receivers, RBs, TEs and sometimes a full back.

His offense is going to be balanced with a slight edge to the power run. There will be some zone running. The passing game will be heavy on the PA and incorporate WRs, TEs, Slot receivers and most prominently, the TE in a WCO passing scheme.

His goal will be to first straight up over-power opponents by first running through gaps or zones and passing to keep defenses honest. When that isn't working (DCs are winning the chess match on early downs), he'll try variations of his basic offense on standard downs (e.g. roll-outs and waggles, RPO, sweeps, screens, constraints and counters, trickeration).

So, my point is, JH isn't going to experiment with spready offenses (e.g., Air raid or Read Option) as much as he is going to expand by the hybridization of his NFL Pro-Style offence. In this way, he'll account for the differences between the college and pro game something, IMO, he is grappling with right now.

I think there are only a handful of coaches that can meld the college and pro game well to produce championships (and players who are high draft picks) at the elite or wannabe elite programs .... and I'd add that the best HS players are looking for programs that can do this.

So, It's a big deal to be able to consistently win by melding the best out of both the college and pro offenses. Doing that and then consistently demonstrate getting into and winning the CFP draws the best HS talent to your program. Success feeds success.

Harbaugh has yet to demonstrate he can do that but I'm pretty sure he will. He's one stubborn fuck and he's pissed off right now that he hasn't clearly demonstrated he can.

Yeah I guess my point is more, don't worry about scheme as much as getting the players right. He has to be better at evaluation in my opinion.

[Hannibal]

Toomer might not be the best guy to deliver the message, but he is right. Harbaugh has been a disappointment and a clown.

[Rocky Bleier]

2-1 vs Ohio State.

John Cooper < Jim Tressel < Urban Meyer

[Jeff Buchanan]

So, since Patterson appears to be on M's football roster as a QB, I'm bringing the discussion about the offense, Peters v. Patterson v. McCaffrey and who starts on September 1st v. ND. Admittedly with regard to that last question, it's like throwing a dart towards a dart board.

However, there's a post at mgobard doing just that and you can vote then see the results. Right now, with over 1550 votes, Peters leads 51% to 44% over Patterson.

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/2018-starting-qb-who-you-got

There's but a few, unfortunately, cogent posts on the question offering real substance as to why one over the other. The good ones speak of the kinds of things that have already been posted here such as can Patterson learn the playbook in catch-up mode and who will do better in whatever passing scheme Harbaugh fashions for them? ..... and I'd add they may not be the same.

I'm going with Peters to start and for Shea Patterson, I hope I'm wrong. Seems to me he's taking a huge gamble. He probably had the inside track to the starting job at Ole Miss although I've seen posts from Rebel fans saying he didn't. Peters is not going down without a fight and from what I've heard he's a competitor.

[froot loops]

Patterson is a lock to start

[CGVT]

Patterson is a lock to start

Yep.

[whodean]

Patterson.

Peters is romanticized by M fans. He didn't show much.

[hack]

Patterson. Not a lock, but highly probable.

[CGVT]

Patterson is better than any QB on the Michigan roster. If he wasn't sure that he is going to start, he'd have gone someplace else.

Silly argument

[hack]

Harbaugh's track record says nobody goes into camp with a job if he can plausibly make it a competition.

[CGVT]

Patterson isn't transferring to ride the pine.

[hack]

Harbaugh has too long a track record of not guaranteeing any QB a job. I highly doubt he handed Patterson the job. I just think it's extremely likely Patterson wins it.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Patterson isn't transferring to ride the pine.

So, your saying Harbaugh guaranteed Patterson the starting QB job either directly or with a wink and a nod?

Your saying it's a silly to discuss who will start on September 1st because Patterson didn't come to M to ride the pine?

Let me give you three reasons why you are wrong:

(1) If Harbaugh told Patterson he was going to start without any competition from QBs already on the roster, that would be inconsistent with what he has articulated regarding who starts on any given game day. It would seriously undercut a primary objective in Harbaugh's approach to coaching.

(2) If (1) is true, you would then have to assume Peters and McCaffrey are going to stay at M to ride the pine. QBs with that kind of talent and NFL potential aren't going to do that. They'll transfer to play. No indication either of them are in the process of doing that.

(3) Guaranteeing a transferring player will start would likely deter any QB recruit in the future and 2018 QB commits Milton and Doyle from signing with M. Why would talented HS QBs do that when the HC could signficnat reduce the likelihood they'll play any time he chooses to do so by bringing in a transfer.

Even though I think you are wrong, I'm interested in what kind of logic you'd offer to support your position. Maybe I could be convinced but I doubt it.