Michigan Football, Team 138, 2017 Season.

[iam416]

Buchanan:

All these posts on what offense HARBAUGH!!!! will run beg the question -- is he running the wrong one?

Look, you know all about OSU 2014. UFM's Third Year. Lost the B10 Player of the Year at QB in August. Plugged in a Redshirt Frosh. Then had to plug in Cardale. He won. His offense was fantabulous. The contrast to HARBAUGH's Third Year, with the numerous similarities, is stunning, IMO. If I were a M fan I would have a really, really hard time excusing away very much of this past season.

I think you'll continue to see an evolving offense that moves toward simplicity and RPOs . They started to get there a little bit with the running game. It was still middling, but you have to like the young pups getting in. And I think it will carry on with the passing game.

[iam416]

He's not transferring to be a backup.

EFZ

[whodean]

Peterson didn't look ready anyway. Start Patterson but at the same time I'd give Peters more than the usual backup snaps in practice.

[iam416]

I sort of think this spells the end of Peters as a starter. There aren't a ton of scenarios that sees Peters ever starting. First, Patterson is so good he goes pro. Job opens back up and it's Peters vs. McC. Second, Peters actually beats out Patterson. Seems very unlikely.

It seems to me that the most likely scenario going forward is Patterson starts for two season and Peters, as a 5th-yr Sr battles McCaffery and whoever else is in the pipeline with the natural inclination (I'm guessing) toward the guy who can start multiple years.

[AlabamAlum]

Patterson is a talent. From what I have seen, he will start. If the coverage holds and the pocket breaks down, he is dangerous running. I know I wanted him at Bama a couple of years back.

[hack]

If Patterson is smart he wouldn't believe Harbaugh even if the latter told him he'd be the starter. Benching Alex Smith for Kaepernick is reason enough. Speight played well enough to have a potential NFL future and didn't come back entrenched on the depth chart either. I don't know what Harbaugh would have said, but we know what he's going to do, which is to make it a competition.

That said, I agree that it seems pretty hard to imagine Peters' path now, unless Patterson is a one-and-done at Michigan. And even then he'd have to beat out McCaffrey. In two years, Joe Milton may have boomed his way into the job or busted out of the discussion as well. That's how it goes though.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Buchanan:

All these posts on what offense HARBAUGH!!!! will run beg the question -- is he running the wrong one? ......... I think you'll continue to see an evolving offense that moves toward simplicity and RPOs . They started to get there a little bit with the running game. It was still middling, but you have to like the young pups getting in. And I think it will carry on with the passing game.

I agree with the evolving offense thing. I also think you are right about Harbaugh looking at his last 3 seasons and saying, fuck it, this pro-style offense (as he envisioned and fashioned it) isn't going to work. I think the last straw may have been his QBs, heavily schooled in WCO/Pro-Style passing trees and their attendant complexity, along with young receivers, just not getting it.

I've read too much over the last 6 months from "Football Study Hall" at Insiders and Brian's takes at mgo (which, as you have pointed out tend to be overly apologetic in support of JHs' philosophy offensively) to understand why a pro-style offense isn't going to consistently challenge for and 5/10X win championships at the college level. I don't have to go over the reasons. We both understand them.

He's not going Air Raid - Mummy at Kentucky, Leach at TT ...... and now Boykin at TCU in a modern version of it; he's also not a Read Option fan - RR at WVU and maybe a modern version of it at Neb with Frost. Smash-Mouth Spread ala. ufm? Maybe but I still see him going heavy sets, using FBs, a lot of TEs and, again as you say, incorporating a sprinkling of RPO with Patterson. Does the PA go by the wayside with Patterson? Maybe, maybe not. JH loves it. My bet is we'll see it. So, Hybrid Pro-Style?

[WingsFan]

Film Review: Shea Patterson and What It Would Mean for Michigan

http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2017/12/film-review-shea-patterson-transfer-michigan-breakdown.html

[hack]

I would be very happy to see him move that way. The spread is a weed that spings up anywhere; the pro-style is a fragile flower that requires the right environment.

[whodean]

I think Patterson is coming with the idea he will start for a year and then go pro.

[iam416]

He's not going Air Raid - Mummy at Kentucky, Leach at TT ...... and now Boykin at TCU in a modern version of it; he's also not a Read Option fan - RR at WVU and maybe a modern version of it at Neb with Frost. Smash-Mouth Spread ala. ufm? Maybe but I still see him going heavy sets, using FBs, a lot of TEs and, again as you say, incorporating a sprinkling of RPO with Patterson. Does the PA go by the wayside with Patterson? Maybe, maybe not. JH loves it. My bet is we'll see it. So, Hybrid Pro-Style?

Yeah, my guess is he'll continue to tinker. I mean, I really think he needs to involve the QB for a few runs, especially someone like Patterson. That broadens his RPO game (in addition, of course, if your QB can run it's a numerical advantage to any other running play). Mostly he'll stick with his RPO game via the TE and play action.

But, I think he has to hybrid it up. And look -- he did this in SF with Kaepernick. He was more spready w/ the power run game in SF than he was at Stanford.

We'll see. It'll be interesting to see what he does. Unrelated, but similarly, in 2018 UFM will finally have a QB that doesn't really run. He'll need to retool a bit to accommodate this. One way to do it is to really amp up the RPOs. Turn the read option IZ into an RPO IZ.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Talked with a friend of mine whose son goes to Ole Miss and plays Baseball. He's seen Patterson, Jefferson and Anderson play and watches with a schooled eye as he was a starting TE for Army back in his day.

Patterson tries to play like Manziel, he said, but without the same seemingly in-born capacity to see the field and come up with big plays. He throws into coverage a lot. He does come up with some big plays but not with the same frequency as Manziel did even early in his career ..... but they are similar.

Jefferson is a very good, big bodied receiver with great hands and is a solid route runner. M is getting a deal here in an NFL caliber WR.

Anderson is OK, nothing special.

...... as far as Patterson being guaranteed a starting role and him not transferring unless he got such guarantee, I think there's no way he got that. I do think that the coaching staff, including Harbaugh went into a lot of detail about how they'd use his skill set (see my response to talent above) and probably made it sound like he would be the best fit in M's "evolving" offense but he's still going to have to win the job ahead of Peters.

Can Peters run an RPO offense? I think he can and I also think per my post above the WCO passing tree with Wides, Slots, TEs and RBs as potential targets incorporated into what I'd call a Hybrid Pro-Style O isn't going away. The next question is, can Patterson run that offense and if he can, is he going to beat Peters out?

Though a less likely thing to happen, is Patterson just a slightly better version of John O'Korn? They are both similar in their HS and early college ball back grounds. I really do think this has to be considered while the irrationally exuberant crowd creams their jeans over this guy.

[Jeff Buchanan]

WF ..... thanks for that link.

The author is Space Cyote who is one of my favorite if not infrequent posters at mgoblog. Interestingly, he was one of the fellows there who took exception to a lot of things Brian posted in his UFRs. The story is that Brain didn't particularly like that, reportedly told him so and accordingly he sort-of stopped posting at mgo and set up his own blog.

[whodean]

Brain

Freudian?

[Jeff Buchanan]

WF's link is terrific. It takes about 45m to go through it paying attention.

Here's the author's conclusion:

Strengths

Good ball speed/pace, can push ball downfield or put it on a line
Good athlete for position that can pick up chunks on the ground (designed or scramble)
Does well to extend plays and keep eyes downfield
Good mechanics on roll out
Play maker

Weaknesses

Sometimes has accuracy issues due to avoiding pressure
Will drop eyes when facing pressure
Will get stuck on first read too long, disrupting the timing of the progression (but does move on in progression)
Will have an over-reliance on legs at times

Conclusions

Personally, I really liked what I saw from Peters in his limited time. I think he needs improvement on reading coverage and needs to improve the timing slightly off of that, but he showed promise and showed a good arm. I think if he was the starter next year, you could expect some good growth from a RS SO and an opportunity to really turn the corner as a RS JR. Patterson, for his part, I don?t think would walk directly into a starting position. I do think there would be a legit competition, if anything because Peters has a better grasp of the offensive system and the timing required within that system.

But Patterson has undeniable talent. He has a live arm, can put the ball on a rope, and generally makes some really good throws even against tight coverage. And when plays breakdown, as they likely will with Michigan?s pass pro, he can still make plays and get you out of jams. Plays don?t always work as designed, sometimes the defense wins, it?s nice to have a really good option back there in the event that happens.

In Patterson?s case though, he tends to over-rely on that playmaking ability. Ole Miss didn?t do him a ton of favors though, relying heavily on roll outs and 5 man protections and saying ?if you can?t get the ball out quickly, make hay yourself.? How much does he change in a more structured scheme, with more protections, or how much do the schemes have to change if he is what he is and doesn?t play as well within the structure. His timing getting off 1st options could bog down in a WCO at times, where timing is essentially to moving the ball through the air. Does he more than make up for that by ?making plays?, or does it bog down too much to be of benefit within what the offense wants to do? It?s hard to know immediately how much of his play (good and bad) and how it fits at Michigan (good and bad) is a product of him vs a product of the Ole Miss scheme.

But the talent is obvious, the upside is potentially significant if it all comes together, and if he can play immediately, that provides an additional bullet (a particularly talented and high upside one) in Michigan?s chamber going into 2018.