Michigan Football, Team 138, 2017 Season.

[WM Wolverine]

Hope you're right about Speight.

[AlabamAlum]

I say this mostly with OSU in mind -- and the jackwagons calling for UFM's head after his 6th fucking loss -- but I don't think it's much different with M -- take some time. Think about the season. Don't react. Speight is going to be good. And when he is you can damn well believe I'll be here to tell you so. I'd prefer he suck. But I don't think that's the case. He's not going to be Navarre. Better.

Exactly.

Programs have to (a) get talent, (b) coach them up and (c) change the culture. That culture change part can take the longest.

[Jeff Buchanan]

........ So let's talk about this "talent" excuse. Hoke's O-line classes were the envy of the Big Ten. Some people have very short memories and have forgotten this. If I had told you back when those guys enrolled how their senior years would look then you would have been absolutely appalled. But now that it has come to pass, everyone just kind of shrugs their shoulders and accepts it. This is precisely what I mean when I talk about lowering standards and accepting failures and excuses.

But IT DID HAPPEN. It's not an excuse.

Kyle Bosch
Pat Kugler
David Dawson
Logan Tulley-Tillman
Chris Fox
Dan Samuelson

0/6

This was the #1 OL class in 2013.The odds of every single player being a non-contributor was 1/64 or 1.5625%. But it happened. This is as clear a reason as any why our OL has limited depth and struggles against elite DLs. It demonstrates the unpredictability in projecting OL success. It isn't about excuses. It is about reality.

When you experience failure, you either failed because you weren't good enough or because you were a victim of circumstance. If you were a victim of circumstance, then you stay the course because your luck, presumably, is bound to change.

I would call a 1.5 chance of what happened, actually happening clear cut circumstance. M didn't fail because the coaching and development wasn't good enough and that failure, therefore, demands change in your your approach. What it requires is recognition that shit sometimes happens. It happened here.

I hope that you're right about Harbaugh's reluctance to accept 10-3 as our ceiling and that he will make whatever changes necessary. If not, then it's Lloyd Carr 2.0, but with tougher rivals.

I think I am right based on Harbaugh's history, his resume and what we know about his personality. In fact, Carr was a damn good football coach until the 38-37 loss to Texas in 2004 really took it out of him and the back to back losses to osu and then USC in 2006 literally put a dagger in his heart.

JH is a much better coach than Carr ever was and I base that on Carr's most notable weaknesses - his cronyism and his fundamental believe that football success is based not on talent or scheme but on execution ..... and it does not matter if the defense knows exactly what you are going to run. Lloyd Carr, bless him for his undying loyalty to Michigan football, was an anachronism that worshiped Bo's style of play in the 70s and wished for nothing more than that style to be proven sound in the CFB game of the 21st century. He could not have been more wrong.

Harbaugh is nothing like LC. He may be a traditionalist. He may be stubborn. But he ain't stupid and time, the time seemingly few people are ready to give M football, will validate that.

[iam416]

Hope you're right about Speight.

Well, it's sincere. I've watched him a lot. I was impressed by his performance against FSU. Yes, impressed. I think I know what a really good college QB looks like, and I think Speight is on that trajectory. Let me put it this way -- he's ahead of Connor Cook at this stage.

You asshats take compliments terribly, but I'll try one more time -- Speight is going to be really good.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I think OL development is a plausible and maybe even serious concern.........

For me, it's an open question. Circumstances that I mention above, while seemingly improbable, happened. Is it Drevno? Play calling? Lack of a push from credible competition and depth? Is it shit happens?

I don't have a clue and neither does anyone else commenting here on this particular and apparent weakness in M's OL play. But being who I am, I'm going with circumstance and the capacity of the coaching staff to turn circumstance into opportunity for success.

[Jeff Buchanan]

..... BTW, talent, I think you are spot on about Speight.

[iam416]

Dude, I try to be as honest as I can on this thread without being sassful. I was surprised M lost to FSU. But, F me, it's not time to throw out the baby with bathwater. Take a step a back. (not directed to you)

[Jeff Buchanan]

Dude, I try to be as honest as I can on this thread without being sassful. I was surprised M lost to FSU. But, F me, it's not time to throw out the baby with bathwater. Take a step a back. (not directed to you)

Well, didn't mean to question your position on OL play. It is a concern. We may have differences in opinion on M's capacity to fix it. Maybe not. Doesn't matter. We're both just fans. I appreciate your honest input.

...... that loss to Clemson however, given that the fucking refs handed The Game to your boys, was indeed a joyful event for Douglas and myself! Heh .... you know what I mean about the fucking refs.

Wiz .... hello.

[iam416]

Nah, JB, I was more talking about how you agreed with my take on Speight. The OL is, IMO, an open question. I come down more on the side of concern, but reasonable minds can disagree.

I have no doubt you and Doug enjoyed last night. I wouldn't have it any other way. I think the world of Doug. I'd love to go to a game with you guys again, though it'd almost have to be some sort of M cannon fodder game -- I can't imagine the OSU-M game will ever be as much a non-event as when I we hung out.

OSU isn't getting any worse. I don't think M is, either. I think in a year or two the B10 East will ACTUALLY be the best division in CFB. By far.

[froot loops]

I think people get too anchored to initial impressions of recruits and that's why Speight isn't thought of better. He has the size, the arm and the work ethic. I would say he's the exact type of QB Harbaugh likes.

[Kstat]

Speight is the type of QB Michigan wants. He just doesn't have the ability to make plays with his arm. Too many misfires in clutch situations.

[froot loops]

He will improve on that.

[Jeff Buchanan]

He will improve on that.

Maybe, and not unless OL play improves.

Brandon Peters is going to give Speight a run and that will improve both of them.

Niether of them, Speight in particular because we've seen it, are going to do well with defenders in their faces. Iowa/Ferentz was the first to figure out how to exploit Cole's and Bredenson's weaknesses in the interior and take advantage of both OTs ......... heavy pressure from combos of DTs & LBs over center and DEs edge rushing. If it takes 5 (Like Iowa had to do) or just 4, osu and FSU, it's the way to stop Harbughoffense.

Speight was particularly good at stepping up at points in the game and making throws, great throws in fact. But he was vulnerable to hearing footsteps, got rattled after getting hit a few times and his performance predictably declined as the game unfolded and the pressure got worse. No surprise and this is not a criticism of Wilton. No QB is immune to this. That's why OL play is a big part of M's lack of a decent passing game against good defenses.

That FSU got great pressure just rushing 4 was a big deal for Speight as nobody was open with 5 guys in coverage. Losing Butt was huge and the 3 trips inside the FSU 20 with 3 FGs to show for it demonstrates why. With no running game to speak of (great DL play in general from FSU), not being able to put Peppers in, not necessarily in the Pepcat package, cause that sucked, but just having him in the back filed or lined up in the slot would have slowed the FSU front 7 onslaught considerably. Have to honor that guy.

[Hannibal]

I like Speight, but he looks to me like a low talent guy who is pretty near his ceiling. I don't see much in the way of upside and with the entire offense around him rebuilding next year, his stats will probably be worse.

[AlabamAlum]

Yes, the o-line needs to improve. Until then, as the pocket collapses from the periphery, Speight has to learn to step up, not freeze or go laterally. As the pocket collapses up the middle he has to learn move laterally or hit a hot route.

This seems like an easy thing for a QB, but it's not. It starts to unfold about a second after the snap. Another spring and summer camp and you should see marked improvement with him in this regard.