Michigan Football, Team 138, 2017 Season.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I don't see this. IMHO the reactions to the first two games have been appropriate.

We frequently have different takes post game. I think that's good and reflects what is good about this forum.

[WM Wolverine]

There is some merit to most concerns we hear here, they are generally greatly exaggerated.

[CGVT]

I'm sure he understands the weaknesses, but I don't know that passing on second-and-5 indicates that he understands what to do about it. Far be it for me to second-guess Harbaugh, but the color guy said exactly the same. Was it Huard? Either way, it's sometimes hard to see what the coach has in mind here.

I think that passing on 2nd and five against Cinci may be an opportunity to work through the problems.

Of course, it could just be boneheaded stubbornness.

[Hannibal]

I think that passing on 2nd and five against Cinci may be an opportunity to work through the problems.

It looks to me like that is what he is doing. It looks like there is a little bit of stubbornness there too. But at least the offense is staying unpredictable.

There is some merit to most concerns we hear here, they are generally greatly exaggerated.

Your baseline expectations are a big factor here. If your desire is to see Michigan win the Big Ten then I don't think that the concerns are exaggerated at all.

[iam416]

Speight is obviously the key to B10 Champs/CFP or another 10-3 season. If M were playing in a shitass division they could probably feel pretty good about getting to the CG, rolling the dice for one game and maybe making the CFP. Unfortunately, they can't (and neither can OSU or PSU). And even if they make the CFP, they can't come close to winning if Speight isn't really good.

The thing that's probably most annoying is that he absolutely can make the throws. So, you see his potential flash -- and that potential is championship potential. But when he's not good you're not even Division champs given the East.

So, it's a rather stark either/or and it probably drives the fanbase fucking nuts. So, I mean, I like that. Heh.

[Hannibal]

The thing that's probably most annoying is that he absolutely can make the throws.

By-and-large, I'm not seeing it. Maybe three or four times a game, but that is the norm for even a mediocre quarterback. I watched Tanner Lee, for instance, play this weekend. I am not necessarily jealous of Nebraska, but even Lee had about a half dozen ridiculously good throws in that game. With Speight, I don't see a tantalizing upside like I saw with Henne, Forcier, Denard, or Gardner.

He averaged 7.6 ypa against Colorado last year. 6.8 against Wisky. 5.6 against Penn State. 4.0 against Iowa. 6.1 against OSU. 4.3 against FSU, and then 7.2 against Florida. In those games he had 7 TDs against 7 INTs. Blech.

[Jeff Buchanan]

......Either way, it's sometimes hard to see what the coach has in mind here.

I'm not sure you can drill down to a single play to conclude that.

Maybe I'm being overly general too. Here's what I mean .......

I think it is pretty clear that this offense is not going to (1) be consistently explosive like the fan base unrealistically expects it to be or (2) be the meat grinding run, clock gobbling offense that we've seen elsewhere (e.g., past Alabama teams, Wisky v. RR).

In Harbaugh's offence, it appears to me and I've read this as well, that it's essential for it to remain "on schedule." When it's not on schedule, you're going to see these head scratching calls from the sidelines. That's on the macro or whole game view and on the micro or single series view.

If it's on schedule (macro or micro take), you'll feel the rhythm. So far, two games in, there's been glimpses of that. If the offensive rhythm JH seeks is present for 60 minutes of game time, Katy bar the door. Given this defense, you will see some impressive, sit back, drink beer and eat popcorn, type wins.

Not there yet and I'm not completely convinced this team will get there either.

As well, Harbaugh likes to make calls that are unexpected. Sure, most coaches do but ...... HARBAUGH!!! can be a bit weird. Of course this is based on what the D is giving the QB on any given play so, Speight probably has a couple of options based on that. The third and 13 run play v. UF where Isaac ripped off a 38y gain on a draw play is an example.

You could probably call the pass on 2nd and 5 you're talking about in that category. I thought it was weird too .....run the fucking ball; that's working damn it. So, yeah, I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with it, just trying to provide an alternate view ....... JH has frequently said when he's asked why he did something, I'm a genius if the call works, a fool when it doesn't. As long as he's right more often than he's wrong, I'm fine with his weirdness and for the most part, if you drill right down to it, he probably is right way more often than he is wrong.

[WM Wolverine]

Your expectations are too high Hannibal for '17, high expectations usually will lead to disappointment. You should root for Bama...

M has how many seniors starters? Khalid Hill, Mason Cole, Maurice Hurst and Michael McCray... Zero juniors who are going to leave early... I expect M is going to be as good in '18 as you hope they are in '17.

The '15 recruiting class is killing M, the transition class where Hoke recruited well but had tons of de-commits in-season; George Campbell, Damien Harris, Darrin Kirkland, Erik Swenson, Devery Hamilton, David Reese, etc.

M's '15 class had just four top 247 overall recruits Brian Cole (transfer), Zach Gentry (moved to TE from QB), Grant Newsome (injured) and Tyree Kinnel...

[hack]

It is WAY too early to hit the panic button, but it's a real bummer Gentry couldn't step up. I wish Harbaugh could get more out of Speight, but, failing that, I wished he would have gotten more out of Gentry. Or Peters. Or Morris. Or just anybody, at this point. Isn't anybody going to blow up at QB under our supposed QB guru?

(Again, way too early to judge. Just frustrating.)

[whodean]

I think that passing on 2nd and five against Cinci may be an opportunity to work through the problems.

Of course, it could just be boneheaded stubbornness.

There we go.

Still "finding themselves" on offense.

[The Oracle]

Is it that shocking?

[Hannibal]

Your expectations are too high Hannibal for '17, high expectations usually will lead to disappointment. You should root for Bama...

There are "Expectations for overall program excellence" and "expectations for year X". My expectations for 2017 have never been higher than 9-3/8-4 range, but that doesn't mean that I am going to be happy about correctly pegging the team's weaknesses, since those weaknesses also have implications for the future. i was at least holding out hope that we would see a favorable development at the QB spot that would lift the ceiling.

My expectations for the program are to regularly compete for the Big Ten, beat Ohio State half the time (or at least significantly more than once a fucking decade), and beat MSU well over half the time. Those expectations are more than reasonable and they aren't going to be met this year or next. It's clear to me that there is a glaring weakness on the team that has no chance of being eliminated until 2019 at the earliest. There is another one (OL) that has left some holes recruiting-wise, so that one is up in the air too. What most people here consider to be "hyperbole" is simply me extrapolating today's performances and combining them experience with my observations about our competition. That's where I look down the road and see Michigan falling short of my program expectations.

[CGVT]

There we go.

Still "finding themselves" on offense.

I think there is validity to this.

Also, I was not talking about one specific 2nd down pass, but in general. I think that all coaches do things that make fans scratch their heads but have long term results in mind.

Playing Cinci gives a team a chance to work on some things that they can't afford to work on against a better quality team.

[whodean]

Your expectations are too high Hannibal for '17, high expectations usually will lead to disappointment. You should root for Bama...

M has how many seniors starters?

The young oLIEo team had *some* success with an abnormally young team a year or two back, that's what Harbaugh is working toward. If he's got the talent and the coaching (I think he has both...on the defensive side) then you look for immediate success.

But ya, root for Bama too

[WingsFan]

A salty Harbaugh is tired of questions about Peters today. He even got snippy with homer reporter Wojo when asked about the QB competition, rolling his eyes. Then shut down Wojo "you have a follow up to that? Wojo - No? Harbaugh - Good.

Jim is clearly frustrated.