Hating on the $EC - Mostly Alabama (and a little Georgia too)

[Da Geezer]

Hack said, "... if you level the playing field on the ethics side, and allow for cash on hand to play a larger role, is there a school that stands to benefit more than Michigan? Dunno that there is." He is correct, at least in basketball.

That's because Michigan starts from a position, in Bball at least, where John Beilein is the gold standard in following the rules. And it is not close, 26.5% to 10.5% at ND. UM starts from close to zero, so any legally permissible cash payments, which is what Hack postulated, would be in addition to the current status quo ante.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/candid-coaches-who-are-the-high-major-coaches-who-dont-break-ncaa-rules/

I don't know about football, other than any leveling of the field would have to have all teams offer scholarships for the same term and under identical conditions. Plus, there would have to be some aptitude threshold established (like an ACT score). The whole student-athlete con is based on the idea that the scholarship athletes are getting something of value in exchange for their "work". Is there a minimum ACT level now?

[AlabamAlum]

I don't think that poll by CBS necessarily indicts others for paying players. Do some coaches? Sure. I think coaches were rated by rival coaches, and some were dinged about anything from practicing too long to ignoring dead periods and bump rules (etc).

We would need to see the full commentary by those coaches, the number polled, and what questions were asked and hiw yhey were answered, Otherwise, it's research that you cannot use to make meaningful conclusions about.

I have never heard anything bad about Avery. I did about Gottfried. Take that for what it's worth.

Avery's comments on Collin. According to him, he is a straight-A student and why he set him for the exhibition game.

http://www.al.com/alabamabasketball/index.ssf/2017/11/alabama_sits_collin_sexton_wai.html

[WM Wolverine]

Minimum SAT is a sliding scale combined with core GPA. Bar is set far too low and these recruits if they are good at football (or other sports) get help to get by in high school if needed... Very rare a highly regarded recruit isn't eligible out of high school. M is aware of the recruits that are borderline and won't take more than a couple in a recruiting class. Before they made they made the sliding scale (some 20+ years ago) there were far more academic casualties...

Universities end up with alot of athletes that really don't belong there, unless you're in the SEC. Thus they have to go to lengths to keep these students eligible and graduate with a degree.

Stanford is unique in how little they cave in to their athletic department.

[AlabamAlum]

Bluechippers who pass the Clearinghouse get in to virtually any D-1 school they choose. It's naive to believe otherwise. And that's not a bad thing, imo. I am much more in the inclusion camp with regard to college than the exclusivity camp. Most college athletes are not going to become pros. Having some college is better than no college for them. It gives them a chance. Do all succeed? Of course not.

[Jeff Buchanan]

So in the current debate about compensating players, you've got a couple of separate issues. If you want the monetary redistributive model by which the current NCAA supports the athletic programs of the lesser colleges and universities (lesser in terms of sports programs and the revenue they produce), you can separate this issue almost completely from the weird shit that goes on in the rules department related to amateurism and compensation.

I think that one is workable and I think the Presidents of NCAA member institutions could drive this ..... that's what I spoke of earlier when I asserted the Presidents do have the power to change the system.

Asking the NFL owners to pony up for running their minor leagues is not a bad idea but those guys are so tight, I can't see them doing anything like that without a payday on the back end of that charitable investment. Recognizing compensation based on performance, maybe the NCAA could arrange for a proxy organization to sue the NFL demanding payment for college players based on their draft order. e.g., the team that drafts the last player in the draft gets X, the first 1000X and so forth. That money from the NFL and earmarked for player compensation, goes into a pool and is redistributed to schools in amounts based on that schools contribution to revenue generation - e.g., school y generates x dollars in revenue, school z generates 10x dollars. School Z gets some share of the compensation pot based on what revenue they generated. These dollars are completely separate from those generated and redistributed to NCAA member institutions from Broadcast rights.

[hack]

My opinion is that, well, um, you see, really in truth what happened is that...

FIFY.

[AlabamAlum]

Jeff,

I agree, the NFL isn't going to agree to spend money. The colleges have zero leverage. I do not think any lawsuit to make them pay the schools would be successful. Any more than a suit trying to force Honeywell to pay schools for engineers they hire or Merrill Lynch to pay schools for CPAs and MBAs they hire.

I do not think the presidents of money schools would agree to reliquish monies to be redistributed to the poor schools.

And though I am not a title IX expert, I think the potential for suits brought by female and non revenue athletes is real.

The only way it would work (imo) is for the schools that make money to secede from the NCAA and start their own league.

[AlabamAlum]

FIFY.

What in god's name are you on about?

[hack]

I think even if you somehow convince yourself that, ON A RELATIVE BASIS, Michigan is no cleaner than any program, despite considerable evidence, you're still not there. You have to consider the relative spending power of schools. Michigan has the largest alumni base, an endowment triple that of OSU and nine times that of Alabama, and, well, amongst that alumni base there's more than the school's fair share of heavy hitters. Depending on the parameters of any system in which the use of the university's capital or alumni capital is legitimized, this would be very exciting for us Michigan fans. I would very much welcome a cash-fueled arms race here.

[AlabamAlum]

I have no tangible evidence of M's relative dirtiness or cleanliness.

-Endowments would never be used to pay recruits.
-You envision paying players to be some free market free-for-all? That would never, ever happen, imo.
-I do not see universities using any capital outside proceeds from athletics. The last numbers I saw had Alabama's 3-year football revenues a bit higher than M's but less than Texas' and maybe one other.

[AlabamAlum]

Here it is:

http://www.businessinsider.com/schools-most-revenue-college-sports-2016-10

While Alabama's football revenue is higher, M is a bit higher when all sports are tallied. The top 24 all have revenues over $100 million.

[THE_WIZARD_]

The Nick...when asked about Ethics...

[AlabamAlum]

Please re-size pics if you must post them.

[hack]

I think resizing is a fair request.

[hack]

Like I said, details of how athletes can get paid would be clear once that's set, which it isn't now. I agree with you it's highly unlikely that universities drain their endowments for football (more likely they'd do it for that than for actual education, but that's another story), but, ultimately, if you make spending power a bigger factor then that's good for schools/alumni bases with greater spending power.