Michigan Football, Team 137, 2016 Season.

[AlabamAlum]

Okay, I admit it: I was gonna drink, regardless. But, because of that, I am drinking faster.

[jaadam4]

lol

[WM Wolverine]

Sparty scored garbage points with 1 second left that made the final score look somewhat close. This game wasn't near as close as the final score.

[iam416]

It was pretty close. The "proper" score was probably the 30-17 number. It certainly wasn't more than 13. The final was 9.

[Hannibal]

Both offenses dominated the game more than the score indicates. It was a low posession game. Sparty only punted once but they moved the ball all afternoon. They rushed for 217 yards, about half of which came in the first half, so not garbage time. Total yardage and first downs was pretty much even between the two teams. Yeah the 4th quarter was bad but MSU could say the same thing about the 2nd quarter.

[Pasadena Blue]

these types of discussions are always hilarious. Yes, Sparty had yards in the 1st half ... but most of it came on the first drive --- this is not the first time that happened to M this year. Sparty was not moving up and down the field like M was for the entire first half -- so I think your argument that BOTH offenses dominated the first half is a little misleading.

Speight throws an INT in the second half. M still stays aggressive through the 3rd quarter. Finally, it's 30-10 in the 4th quarter. Normally JH goes for the jugular here, but he remembers the crazy crap from last year's game and he prematurely goes conservative on the play-calling. If you want to say JH is a lousy coach and shouldn't have done that (calling JH lousy seems to be your bag), go right ahead. I can't really defend JH's decision. Sparty was not a team that was going to roll over so it was a poor decision. JH also probably didn't expect his D to suddenly start missing tackles which hasn't happened all year. I have re-watched that 4th quarter a few times now, it was not some sudden genius play-calling or increased physicality from Sparty that shut down M's O and D. Regardless, no one disputes that the 4th quarter was the worst one M played all year and is not surprising if one team plays not to lose and the other keeps trying to make a game of it.

I think the story you are trying to tell is that this was an evenly played and evenly matched slugfest, and since Sparty is a miserable team this year that has been beaten soundly by other teams, M must be lousy and JH must be a terrible or at the very least over-rated coach.

Anyways, carry on ... who I am to stop you from being the only realistic person here who sees JH for the failure that he is, and M as a pathetically under-achieving program.

[Jeff Buchanan]

It was pretty close. The "proper" score was probably the 30-17 number. It certainly wasn't more than 13. The final was 9.

Looking at that game just on the basis of score probably doesn't do justice to what really happened in that game.......MSU got ass-railed. Nobody is buying the come-back BS from Dantonio or the "Defeat with Dignity" - the Monday Headline in MSU's version of the Michigan Daily.

MSU had one decent, first half drive for 7 points. There are, floating about, a couple of reasons why that happened. MSU was the first team this season that consistently got through to the second level in the run game - at least until Brown seemed to adjust. Looked to me like M played a 3 man front to open the game. For whatever reasons, that didn't work out. I'm going to defer to the UFRs to see exactly why that happened .... RPS, unexpected shifts, pulls? At this point I can't comment.

Following that one moment of good, there were two subsequent quarters of shit football from MSU with M playing it's best immatation of Rope-A-Dope, followed by one quarter of Dantonio desperately trying to make MSU look good while making himself look exactly like the Jack Ass he is.

Then, to make the poker M rammed up MSU's ass a bit hotter, Peppers scooped and scored after Terry botched a pitch to Scott trying to execute a ridiculous 2pt conversion with a couple of seconds left.

There's some discussion of Harbaugh's approach to the second half after Speight, driving on their first possession of the 2nd half, made a terrible throw on an out route that got picked-off. I've seen it referred to as the best version of Lloyd Ball we've seen from JH since he came to AA. Harbaugh was vague about it in his Monday presser when asked. Whatever.

Here are M's 3 possessions after Speight threw the INT:

• run run pass punt
  
• pass to fullback in the flat, run, pass, run run run punt
  
• run run run punt

Fans wanted the blow out they didn't get because, unlike Lloyd Ball actually called by Lloyd Carr, this approach made perfect sense. To Harbaugh it was probably a no brainer to play it safe and rely on your defense. Which is exactly what happened. M bled the clock with some help from MSU who had virtually no sustainable passing game without the aid of PI penalties and a HC that made some questionable tactical decisions (some think O'Conner - who could hit his receivers - should have gone in but instead, Dantonio ground out an 11p series that ended with a turnover on downs).

Meanwhile, M's defense knocked the shit out of whoever Dantonio whistled in to play QB, stoned 3 fourth down conversions attempts, pretty much kept Scott and Corley in check and allowed one TD on its last desperation possession where MSU gained first downs on that scoring drive on 3, what I would call, mercy penalties. Here's MSU's 3rd/4th quarter possessions after the INT:

• INT, 11:26 3rd, 8p, 29y, Turnover on downs. (At this point it's 27-10)
  
• KO, 14:42, 4th, 11p, 58y, Missed FG. (30-10)
  
• Punt, 09:01, 4th, 5p, 59y, TD. (30-17)
  
• Punt, 03:55, 4th, 10p, 64y, Turnover on downs. (30-17)
  
• Punt, 00:37, 4th, 4p, 75y, TD, missed 2pt conversion w/00.01 time remaining, returned for 2pts by Peppers.
  
• Final: (32 - 23)

I don't want to take anything away from the MSU players who hung in there and played until the fitting ending to this contest. Peppers. What I won't stand for is changing the narrative from an outright ass-kicking to some kind of BS where the game was close or MSU lost with dignity. The game was neither of those things. What it was was a cruel ending to 8 years of MSU dominance on the field, inflammatory statements by the programs head coach about this contest and the humiliation, with a cherry on top - Peppers - of Mark Dantonio.

[iam416]

I'm still not sure how M going into LloydBall mode means the final margin wasn't appropriate. The win wasn't really in doubt, but the a 10-13 point margin was entirely fair.

[Hannibal]

You can't say "the game was closer than the score indicates" when the yardage was even closer than the score and MSU's yards came largely on the ground against our first string defense. MSU only punted once the entire game on ten possessions. They had one quick INT and on the rest of their possessions they moved the ball all day long. The dynamic of MSU overachievement and UM underachievement was in full force like it always is.

[edindetroit]

MSU only punted once the entire game on ten possessions. They had one quick INT and on the rest of their possessions they moved the ball all day long.

They didn't need to punt when they just turned the ball over on downs three times.

[Jeff Buchanan]

talent, I agree with you on the final score and the margin as being appropriate but where I take issue is with a characterization that the game was "pretty close." Maybe I miss-read your intent there.

Either way, I just don't want the narrative changed. It was an ass-kicking. Period.

I also admit, I'm going overboard on trying to make that point. Hope you don't blame me after putting up with Dantonio's BS for four years. TBH, I think that he's a good football coach with respect to Xs and Os and he's done a great job with player development over the years. I don't like his character one bit though. His childishly, inflammatory comments directed against the M football program, both coaches and players, his unabashed disdain for anything having to do with M football along with the ridiculous importance he places on the M/MSU game every year just got shoved up his ass. Give me that moment of singular pleasure for another day or two, then I'll move on.

[iam416]

You don't typically punt from your opponent's 20. But, yes, M EVENTUALLY got stops.

I think that was Hanni's point -- MSU moved the ball. M forced 1 punt -- 1 single 3 and out. Most of the other MSU drives were 7 or 8 plays at least before getting stopped.

How you view that depends on how you view MSU's offense.

[Tslisher]

You can't say "the game was closer than the score indicates" when the yardage was even closer than the score and MSU's yards came largely on the ground against our first string defense. MSU only punted once the entire game on ten possessions. They had one quick INT and on the rest of their possessions they moved the ball all day long. The dynamic of MSU overachievement and UM underachievement was in full force like it always is.

Hanni, the only reason they only punted once is that we stoned them on 4th and short THREE TIMES in the 2nd half.

Using your Math - they had 10 drives, and we held them scoreless on 6 of those 10. And two touchdowns came late in the 4th quarter.

Put it another way - they had a first good drive, and then nothing until garbage time.

[iam416]

Buchanan:

It's not my place to be critical of your feelings -- certainly no on this thread. I get your feelings about Sparty. No complaints.

I don't think the score does justice to the difference in quality between the teams -- if they played on Saturday at EL, I think the line should be around 21-24. I do think the score did justice to how the game played out. MSU's offense was surprisingly able to move the ball -- albeit not in the red zone. That was the biggest surprise of the game for me.

And, of course, one does not judge a team by a single game. M's body of work justifies your current expectations even if, IMO, last week's game does not.

Also -- not trying to step over any line or pick any fights. Just my honest take. I've had my say. And, shit, you have Hannibal to REALLY rain on your parade...so....

[Jeff Buchanan]

You can't say "the game was closer than the score indicates" when the yardage was even closer than the score and MSU's yards came largely on the ground against our first string defense. MSU only punted once the entire game on ten possessions. They had one quick INT and on the rest of their possessions they moved the ball all day long. The dynamic of MSU overachievement and UM underachievement was in full force like it always is.

Hanni, I think MSU did move the ball and the stats show that. I acknowledged that on a comment in my post. I could be totally wrong about this but when you're bleeding clock like I think JH wanted to do after the INT, I think you want to play less aggressively, keep the ball in front of you and make the opponent work for every yard of field position their gaining (exhibit A. the 11 play grind out series that ended on a stuffed 4th down attempt.) I hate that kind of D. Hate it. But in a hostile environment, give your opponent a little when he has the ball instead of risking a lot when you have it.