Team 137 by Jim Harbaugh. Football talk and Predictions.

[lineygoblue]

If you have talent it should show even if you have a buffoon coaching.

Then how do you explain Bobby Williams and John L Smith?

[Mike]

They had talent?

[lineygoblue]

Well, .. good point .. but the "If you have a buffoon coaching" kind of set my response in motion there ...

[Mike]

There was certainly buffoonery to spare.

[froot loops]

Then how do you explain Bobby Williams and John L Smith?

Huh?

[UMStan White]

Uh crap coaches with talented teams put together by Saban

[WM Wolverine]

Even when Sparty was awful/mediocre, they usually mixed in a 2-3 NFL caliber talents on the roster.

[Pasadena Blue]

PB:

I think you miss the mark with your "talent rich state" rationalization. It's true -- Ohio is talent rich. However, I think it's largely irrelevant as it doesn't really explain UFM's recruiting success, at least as measured by recruiting rankings (using 247 Composite).

uh... I don't seem to recall saying that "talent rich state" was Urbz sole advantage or explanation for his recruiting success ... I counted it as one of several.

Overall, I don't see M ever fielding a more talented team than O-state based on recruiting stars. If JH is to have success against Urbz, he'll have to do it in other ways.

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... Overall, I don't see M ever fielding a more talented team than O-state based on recruiting stars. If JH is to have success against Urbz, he'll have to do it in other ways.

I'm not sure about that.

My view is that both Harbaugh and meyer have equal opportunity wrt recruiting. Both programs have the same drawbacks with respect to location and climate. I think it's incorrect to think osu takes more academically marginal players than M ...... that has always been a questionable excuse for osu's dominance over M football and that's what it is, like that characterization or not.

These two coaches have very different recruiting styles - the one's that are public anyway. We can't know much beyond their public images both of these coaches want to present. One thing you cannot escape though is that recruiting, beyond style, is about relationships.

From what I've seen JH understands this. He appears to be building them if not in a different way than meyer - e.g., hiring a recruiting target's HS coach or family member - and I'm not going to assail that approach.

Given M's abysmal record over the last decade and the loss of at least a generation of future elite CFB players, it's going to take a while for that to reverse itself. But, I think it will. The only barrier to fielding equal talent for these two programs is a significant failure on JH's part to actually establish productive relationships with his recruiting targets or connect with them in the zany way he has, so far, demonstrated.

Perhaps wishful thinking but I think one advantage JH has over meyer is his own CFB and NFL success at the QB position and his undeniable NFL coaching success. meyer offers none of that. Moreover, Harbaugh seems intent on establishing a strong presence of successful NFL types on his coaching staff and working to sell that aspect of his program to recruits who want nothing more than to find a way to the NFL and the big paychecks that facilitates.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I hope we can agree that Jim is big boy recruiting now. So there are no more moral victories.

[iam416]

uh... I don't seem to recall saying that "talent rich state" was Urbz sole advantage or explanation for his recruiting success ... I counted it as one of several.

uh...I don't seem to recall saying that you did....I said that the "talent rich state" rationalization, while broadly true, doesn't really play with UFM's recruiting.

Buchanan:

Good post.

I'm going to have to call the following "wishful thinking" though:

Perhaps wishful thinking but I think one advantage JH has over meyer is his own CFB and NFL success at the QB position and his undeniable NFL coaching success. meyer offers none of that. Moreover, Harbaugh seems intent on establishing a strong presence of successful NFL types on his coaching staff and working to sell that aspect of his program to recruits who want nothing more than to find a way to the NFL and the big paychecks that facilitates.

Kids definitely want a path to the NFL. That's a selling point. JH can only sell piecemeal results (Andrew Luck! some TEs). So he goes with OP's "NFL MACHINE, INC"!!!! UFM's pitch is pretty clear...did you just watch the draft?

[UMStan White]

Boy you can say that again!

[iam416]

Heh

[Prime2]

Kids definitely want a path to the NFL. That's a selling point. JH can only sell piecemeal results (Andrew Luck! some TEs). So he goes with OP's "NFL MACHINE, INC"!!!! UFM's pitch is pretty clear...did you just watch the draft?

This is getting embarrassing and the record needs to be corrected, sorry Talent.

1.) Meyer has spent his entire 15 year career coaching at the Kiddie Table, BG, Utah, Florida & OSU. In that entire time he has only produced 45 NFL drafted players. Although a large number this year have declared, whether they get drafted and stick with a Pro club remains to be seen. BTW 2/3rds of that class was recruited by Fickel/Tressel. LOL

"Meyer has watched as a total of 45 players he coached the previous seasons get selected in the NFL Draft, including 11 first-round draft picks."

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/meyer_urban00.html

2.) OTOH, NFL Machine Inc. Aka Jim Harbaugh is a NFL Pro producing goldmine! Harbaugh's 4 short years at Stanford easily eclipses Meyer's entire 15 year effort.

WOLVERINES
U-M recruit flyer touts Harbaugh's history producing pros
One of the big recruiting leaps from Jim Harbaugh's new staff at Michigan are the promotional flyers.
Some are individual about the specific prospect, some are more general, such as one sent recently to a few prospects in New Jersey to join the current New Jersey commits.
But the newest one, tweeted out by U-M football's graphic artist Aaron Bills, plays on Harbaugh's collegiate track record of sending players to the pro ranks at Stanford and the University of San Diego.
According to the flyer, he was dominant sending players to the NFL
"Jim Harbaugh's Players: Over Half to the League"
The flyer, which prominently features cornerback Richard Sherman, quarterback Andrew Luck and tight end Zach Ertz in the front and progressively smaller photos of the less prominent players in their NFL uniforms, getting smaller as they recede in the photo, cites that he gave 106 scholarships during the four years at Stanford and 58 players, most at Stanford and a few from SD reached the NFL. Some of the 58 were not on scholarship and walk-ons who developed into getting a pro shot..

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2015/11/07/michigan-football-flyer/75364106/

[iam416]

Harbaugh recruited or coached 20 players that were drafted while he was at Stanford-and most were drafted after he left. UFM's total doesn't even include kids he recruited and coached but were drafted after he left.

I understand the need to use two wildly disparate standards. There's no comparison otherwise.