osu @ M - Game Day, In Game, Post Game Discussion

[The Oracle]

It hurts me to think what these kids were thinking.

Recruits don't put as much stock in one game as fans think. Pretty far down the list.

[hack]

To those who wondered why M's defense struggled mightily against the read-option vs both OSU and Indiana. The author (Steve Sharik) confirms exactly what a friend of mine (played B1G football & is a DC at high school level against many option/veer offenses) told me a few days after the loss to Indiana and told me it'd happen again to the Buckeyes without a major change in scheme...

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/steve-sharik

Thanks for posting that, WM. Great reading. Except for the last paragraph. That was absolutely miserable reading.

[WM Wolverine]

For those too lazy to click the link or have the excuse of being on a mobile:

As you can see, the Spartans have safeties close enough to not be undermanned against inside running plays, and are also aligned so they have one more pass defender than the offense has eligible receivers to each side.

Again, I hope that Michigan does something different schematically against the Buckeyes than it did against the Hoosiers. If not, Ezekiel Elliot is going to have a Carlos Hyde type performance.

[Tslisher]

Ok, I gave myself a day to get over the gloom of that ass kicking.

No doubt about it, we were out talented and also out schemed on the defense. As WM has been saying, Durkin didn't have the answer for the read-option and should have taken a page from Sparty's book with the safety help. Without Glasgow in there at nose, our front 3-4 just couldn't match up, and our linebacker play was horrible. Even when they were in the gap, they were out of position and you don't tackle Elliot with arm tackles.

On the offensive side, despite the lack of touchdowns we moved the ball through the air. Total lack of a running game is totally baffling to me after a full season of trying to improve on this side. That's scary, since basically we will have the same line as this year. However, if you read Brian's UFR's it seem like our running backs just can't make good cuts and good decisions that even a average Big10 back can. Perhaps getting a star freshman in can make a difference there.

Although OSU stung, there was definite progress this year. 9-3 is above the expectations of most on this blog, as it seems like most prognostications were around 8-4 or 7-5. Certainly national figures had us more like 7-5 and 6-6 before the season started.

Next year, no excuses. Have to beat both Sparty and OSU. I think really its all going to hang on two points. Finding a running game, and settling in on a QB. I hope Harbaugh really is the quarterback whisperer that we all think he is. I was impressed with Rudock by the end of the year. Is there another QB on the roster (O'Korn?) that can be coached up?

Also, anyone have an update on Rudock? Is he going to be out for the bowl game?

[WM Wolverine]

Next year 11-0 heading into The Game.

[WM Wolverine]

Early prognosis on Rudock didn't sound promising (for the bowl).

[hack]

Re the defense, well, it looks like our staff crapped the bed on the same level Urban's did a week earlier on offense. It happens. Awful timing.

Re the running game, I agree -- you'd think you'd get some improvement there in-season, but it didn't happen. Smith probably has lingering high-ankle issues. So many other players improved and none of the RBs seemed to. I think what this year has shown me is that Hoke brought in talent, but his staff, depending on the position group, was in some cases terrible at identifying talent. RB is an obvious one, and IMO after Gary IMO Kareem Walker is the most important recruit. Harbaugh's been able to address the QB situation fast. I think they will be fine there.

We'll see what he does with LBs. If we get a miracle and are able to retain Butt, that might help Harbaugh feel comfortable moving a guy like Winovich back to LB? Or if Bunting's ready, and Gentry's been practicing there. Mike McCray? No buzz there. Was he hurt? Any way you look at it, you've got to imagine that Harbaugh will be looking starting now for fast guys on the roster he can move to LB.

[Tslisher]

Early prognosis on Rudock didn't sound promising (for the bowl).

That would not be good. I'd really love to see us win a bowl for recruiting purposes. 10-3 sounds so much better than 9-4 to wrap up the season. Not sure we can win a bowl without Rudock, as we still don't have any semblance of a running game.

[paul daugherity]

I am with Tslisher on this one. Yesterday sucked. Durkin got out schemed, but even if he hadn't, the talent disparity was big, and would have pulled OSU through.

Still a number of positives this season. 9-3 (I had the ceiling as 7-5) 3 shutouts, 4-0 in league road games (granted, not tough venues, but still not something UM has done in years), ruddock looked better as the season wore on, the team pulled out games they could have lost (IU and Minnesota) and were very competitive with MSU, which I thought would be a blowout loss.

Yes, there still needs to be a lot of improvement. But didn't we all know this was a rebuild job? Plus, is there anyone else you'd rather have than Harbaugh at the helm (caveat being someone who'd actually come)? The defense needs to figure out how to deal with tempo and read option. The offense needs to figure out how to run it. There needs to be a talent, speed and athletic upgrade everywhere. It is going to take time, and given the last 15 years, we are running out of patience. The difference now is we have a coach that can actually get us there.

[Rocky Bleier]

To those who wondered why M's defense struggled mightily against the read-option vs both OSU and Indiana. The author (Steve Sharik) confirms exactly what a friend of mine (played B1G football & is a DC at high school level against many option/veer offenses) told me a few days after the loss to Indiana and told me it'd happen again to the Buckeyes without a major change in scheme...

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/steve-sharik

Thanks for this. I'll also be listening to hear Marcus Ray's analysis.

[Jeff Buchanan]

We are done commiserating about this. Move along. Nothing more to see. Sticky and Icon removed.

[hodgkal]

I think we all agree it takes a truly fanatical commitment to excellence to rise to the top in CFB. Thinking about RR and Hoke, both were decent men who knew a lot about the game but seemed to lack that "fire in the belly" that differentiates those at the top from the rest. I think we have now embarked on a new era but it is going to take time to rebuild this program to its former stature. Harbaugh IMO fulfills the requirements to get this done but it won't be easy. Here is something I wrote on this forum 10 years ago (March 1906):

"Looking at things in a larger context we can see how the M football program went "off the rails" 10-12 years ago. I always knew a good coach was essential for success but to get to the top level it takes a guy with fanatical incentive. Certainly RR and Hoke did not come close. But the damage done during this era has been profound. Here's something I posted on this forum 10 years ago (March 2006):

I’ve been thinking about an analogy from the past that I believe sheds light on our present situation. In 1947 Michigan found itself flooded with talented athletes coming home from WWII. Combined with this influx was one of the most innovative and successful coaches in all of college football history, Fritz Crisler. This talent infusion actually began in 1946 but there was such a plethora available it took ‘til midseason for Crisler to sift through these riches and settle on a first, second, and third team to represent the Wolverines. By the end of that ’46 season he had assembled the awesome juggernaut that crushed Ohio State 58-6. The following year, Crisler’s last, Michigan was again loaded, but also better organized, and we went undefeated but so did ND who got the nod from the media as the #1 team in the nation. Crisler stepped down after that fabulous season but there was plenty of residual talent in the cupboard when Benny Oosterbaan succeeded him as H.C. We ran the table again in 1948 and this time earned the title of national champs, but we were not demolishing our opponents like we had been the previous 1 ? seasons. Other teams seemed to be catching up, but also there seemed to be a little less mystique to the Michigan program. Now those first 3 years of Oosterbaan’s reign we still had talent galore and we managed to win the conference each of those 3 years, but the handwriting was on the wall. MSC (now MSU) succumbed to us 13-7 in 1948, 7-3 in 1949, and in 1950 defeated us behind a gathering powerhouse program under Biggie Munn. (To lose to MSC was unheard of and was a bitter pill to swallow). That was the year we clinched the conference championship on the final weekend with our snow bowl victory in Columbus, a game so distorted by the weather you could not really assess which was the better team. But for sure, we were no longer striking fear into our conference opponents. You could see our dominance eroding and during that decade of the 50’s and Oosterbaan’s teams never again won the conference although we had a couple of decent teams in ’55 and ’56, the era of Ron Kramer, Tommy Maentz, Terry Barr and others. To rabid followers like myself you could see the steady erosion of Michigan dominance which could only be explained by a type of leadership and management brought by Oosterbaan that some have described as remote, even though he was widely admired and had been a world class player for Michigan in the 20’s. I don’t know the politics of Benny’s departure in 1958 but believe it was voluntary on his part but there was no doubt he had run dry in terms of building and sustaining the football program. The signs and symptoms were everywhere. So here we had a respected fine gentleman, an icon of Michigan glories past, who apparently had lost the “fire in the belly”, or whatever it is that separates the “adequate” to the truly outstanding leaders, whether it be in the business world, sports, or whatever. Under Oosterbaan’s successor, Bump Elliott, we had a similar dynamic – a storied superstar on the gridiron who was almost “too nice” to crack heads and instill that fanatic will to win that characterizes the most successful of the coaching genre. We could still recruit reasonably but Elliott’s teams never achieved the dominance of the Crisler era, even though we did win the conference and the Rose Bowl in 1964 (an era when Bob Ufer became the rabid voice of the Wolverines). So there was a long hiatus from the Crisler era until Bo Schembechler rescued the Michigan football tradition in 1969. The rest is well known and documented here. I guess my point is you can be a great guy, a competent coach, a leader with integrity, and admired as a person, but none of these things is a guarantor of coaching success at the highest level. And many would say it is not worth the compromises to seek a national championship every year, with all the sacrifices and pressures to “win at all cost”. So here we are. We are not even close to returning to that glory land of competing every year for the MNC, and some here would say it is not worth the sacrifice involved. But somehow I feel we deserve and should seek to do better. It has to begin with L.C. doing the gentlemanly thing in the same way Benny Oosterbaan did it. Step down with your dignity and your reputation as a coach of integrity and compassion for his players intact, having brought us a share of national glory, but for whom, for whatever reason, the parade seems to have passed by. Come on Lloyd, let’s do it at the end of this season. You will deserve our praise for a successful and respected tenure as H.C. of one of the premier football programs in the nation. Then let’s have a non-rushed thoughtful search for the next H.C. who has the potential “wake up the glories” of the past."

Most of you weren't born when Crisler reawoke the glories of Yost and M football, but it all goes back a long way.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Thanks for that, Doc.

Perspective is important.

[WM Wolverine]

Some of us don't remember Bo bringing the program back to where it belonged.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Some of us don't remember Bo bringing the program back to where it belonged.

I do but I think there may only be 1 or 2 who can add perspective before the Schembechler era.

I new nothing of M football prior to maybe '64-5 when I started thinking about going to college and then, only marginally. My Dad graduated from M in 1939 but he was more of a Cubs, Blackhawks and Bulls fan than M. I do remember radio broadcasts of M games when he was out doing yard work.

Even as a freshman in '66, football and the weekends were just a big party scene for me. After I joined a fraternity in '67, football Saturdays were an afterthought ..... it was all about PARTY, Whapatoola punch (don't ask) and Boone's Farm in a boda bag under your coat for the game.

The osu victory in '69, a game I have very clear memories about and one that I retain while discarding yesterday's memories, changed all that. I became a M football fanatic and remains so to this day, 46 years later.