Michigan @ Minnesota, Saturday, 10/31, 7pm EDT, ESPN

[Prime2]

Peppers debuted on Offense first against the Dago and he shit his pants. I suspect Harbaugh has some Dr. Pepper plays you won't see until Ohio A&M.

[froot loops]

If there's any room for criticism at all, it's for not having a bigger role for Peppers. Rudock is who he is. Jim Harbaugh's the coach. He didn't suddenly get stupid once he landed in Ann Arbor. I'm confident that, though he's human and makes mistakes too, Harbaugh's getting the most he can out of this offense.

It will be interesting to see what Harbaugh does when he gets more talent in there. From what I can tell Peak Harbaugh won't be drastically different than Peak Carr.

[Mike]

Well, peak Carr won a national title.

[froot loops]

No doubt, I thought Lloyd was a great coach.

[Mike]

Harbaugh is better.

[The Oracle]

SAD when OP is the voice of reason in this thread. Not really, maybe just surprising

[iam416]

Without Jake Ruddock, this team is no better than 8-4. With Jake Ruddock they can go 9-3 and probably 10-2. With a QB modestly better than Jake Ruddock -- and that's not saying a whole lot -- they could be 15-0.

[hodgkal]

"No doubt, I thought Lloyd was a great coach."

Lloyd reminds me of the career of Bennie Oosterbaan. You can't really evaluate a coach's performance until he has matured into the program and installed his own personnel. Bennie inherited a truckload talent from his predecessor (Crisler) in 1948 and won an undisputed title in his first year, but as the years went by reality began to emerge. Bennie could not recruit to the Crisler level and when he left the program it was a shell of its former self.

By the same token I think Lloyd inherited a full cupboard from Moeller and was able to put together the ingredients in the subsequent few years. But it was slowly downhill after that. A good coach? Yes. A great coach? I don't think so, but of course a really good guy who maintained the respect of his peers.

Really "great" coaches are indeed a rare breed.

[Rocky Bleier]

Rudock is a one year stop gap for a season that wasn't supposed to be all that great anyway, but then people got all Harbaugh, and after three shutouts that became HARBAUGH, and now we can all relax and settle into the last five lukewarm performances of Rudock. The team showed a lot of improvement under JJH this season, which is not a validation of Hoke, as he pretends it to be, but an indictment of how poorly coached they were last season. I don't think Michigan will be having QB problems anymore as long as JJH is the head coach.

[Jeff Buchanan]

"No doubt, I thought Lloyd was a great coach."

Lloyd reminds me of the career of Bennie Oosterbaan. You can't really evaluate a coach's performance until he has matured into the program and installed his own personnel. Bennie inherited a truckload talent from his predecessor (Crisler) in 1948 and won an undisputed title in his first year, but as the years went by reality began to emerge. Bennie could not recruit to the Crisler level and when he left the program it was a shell of its former self.

By the same token I think Lloyd inherited a full cupboard from Moeller and was able to put together the ingredients in the subsequent few years. But it was slowly downhill after that. A good coach? Yes. A great coach? I don't think so, but of course a really good guy who maintained the respect of his peers.

Really "great" coaches are indeed a rare breed.

Terrific historical perspective.

I agree on Doc's assessment of LC. His biggest weakness was his tendency to cronyism. Taking care of his boys produced his legacy demise from about 2004 on. Many in his peer group were guilty of that as well.

I'm not sure just yet about long-term HARBAUGH!!!. Doc makes another great point about the impact of "settling in." It is indeed huge.

The thing about JH is that he has an established character of never being satisfied. He was like that as a college player, an NFL QB and clearly as a coach at all levels of the game.

He is way more competitive, IMO, than any of his predecessors at M, including RR who is but seems to lack the steadiness at the helm that Harbaugh possesses.

That puts him on an even keel with his contemporary greats and I'd include Saban, ufm and possibly Dantonio who has yet to truly establish himself but, on his way. I have a lot respect for that turd.

I like where the program is headed. Most of us here got ahead of ourselves after beating up on also rans while loosing sight that two clubs with better QBs got the best of this team. That fact should portend a clear picture of the rest of 2015.

[lineygoblue]

The last "better" QB we faced wasn't on the field when his team won. He and his friends needed Michigan to make a mistake to add a "w" to their record.

I think my good friend Jeff still underestimates how good this Michigan team is.

I'll save you a seat, my friend. :-)

[WM Wolverine]

M is a superior QB away from being ELITE.

[lineygoblue]

I agree WM.

Its going to be fun to see Michigan playing with that piece of the puzzle in place.

IMO, it could be as early as next year, although its more likely that it will be 2017.

[Prime2]

M is a superior QB away from being ELITE.

Imagine that and in just 7 games too.

Hopefully Taysom Hill is a "done deal" and of course O'Korn & Gentry have been pumping weights, learning the playbook and should press hard for the starting job while Peters redshirts.

As for Morris, Malzone and Speight, cannon fodder and ALL Hoke's fault.

[WM Wolverine]

Defensively everybody returns for '16 except the LB's, Jarrod Wilson, Royce Jenkins-Stone and probably Jourdan Lewis early entry... Offensively they only lose Glasgow & Rudock and nothing else...

Should be lots of improvement from within while the competition loses a lot to graduation/NFL. '16 all they'll need is a game manager to be ELITE, hopefully M has one or can find one, they couldn't find or develop one for '15.