MICHIGAN'S MEN'S BASKETBALL: 2015-2016

[hack]

He might do a prep year?

[*JD*]

So, without Brown, I'm wondering if they bring back Max just to add depth and experience up front. For the last month of the season, he was the best big (albeit at 6'6"-7") that Michigan had and it sounds like Max might prefer staying at U of M for his 5th year. It also would give Beilein more flexibility if Moe isn't really ready to contribute.

[hack]

If not Max then a better grad transfer 5, but I'd be fine with Max. He knows the system.

[Da Geezer]

Hard to believe that no one has posted for 16 days.

What do you guys think about the new rules promulgated by the NCAA.

30 second clock, 1 less timeout, timeouts taken near TV timeouts count against team, but the TV cuts to commercial.

Personally, I watched Jim Valvano win a national championship because the refs are afraid of calling an intentional foul. Two shots and the ball. That would speed up games by 15 minutes right there.

What do you think?

[The Oracle]

I like all the rule changes, but Bilas and others our there are adamant that a 30 sec shot clock with automatically "clean up" the sport. Not close, but I still like it. Anything with less timeouts is great. I still haven't seen anything to address the most idiotic thing going in giving free TOs at the end of games because they have to review every stoppage. It's ridiculous.

[WM Wolverine]

There are way too many timeouts and they are mostly/wisely saved for the last couple minutes of the game... Fouling at the end of the game is a pet peeve to get back in the game...

Happens at both the NCAA and college level but you see the strategy of shooting 3 pointers in the last 90 seconds of a game while fouling the opposition to put them at the line...

I liked the idea of fouls in those situations being a 2-and-1, you only receive a 3rd FT attempt if the second is a make.

[iam416]

A few more possessions per game won't change the game all that much.

I'd prefer timeouts by half instead per game. 3 per half or something.

FT shooting is part of the game. Make them. I mean, hell, without that strategy Trey Burke ends his career in the S16. I don't see anything wrong with it. In fact, I think all sports routinely involve some sort of end of the game strategy shift -- relief pitcher parades, hurry up offenses/running the play clock down, pulling the goalie...work hard to have the advantage and then put it away.

[Da Geezer]

Just call the fouls that ARE intentional as intentional fouls.

I've never even heard of the 2 and 1 before, but why change the rules just because you want to relieve the refs of having to make a judgment call. At the end of the game, two shots and the ball, the current and historical rule. I think not calling intentional fouls may also have to do with confusion about the difference between intentional and technical fouls with the fans.

If you ever get a chance to watch the 30 for 30 with Jim Valvano and the 1983 NC State Wolfpack, it is really a good show. But his strategy hurt basketball in the long run.

I'm not so hot on the 30 second clock either. But, I remember when there was no clock in college, and teams would try to stall against UCLA or other dominant teams. I recall a game where SMU who had one player ( Jon Koncak) went against Georgetown who had a cast of thousands led by Patrick Ewing, and John Thompson chose to sit back and let SMU stall. GU won by a basket, but I figured that was about as dumb a move as I'd ever seen by an overwhelming favorite with a 9 deep bench.

The shorter the clock, the more it favors the deep and fast teams (I'll bet Shaka Smart in Texas is delighted). Michigan humiliated VCU a couple of times by breaking the press, then taking their time and getting a good shot. We'll see if that happens with a shorter clock.

[iam416]

They didn't have a shot clock in 1983. You HAD to foul. Houston going to the four corners was a blunder. In addition, he fouled Franklin with the game tied! Some real chutzpah.

The intentional foul thing is bad, IMO. If you make a play on the ball, it should be fine. If you're down you should be able to amp up your defense to try for steals.

[Da Geezer]

You are conflating the shot clock and intentional fouling. One has little to do with the other.

You imply that if you make a play on the ball, or amp up your defense to try to steal balls, that this is ipso facto an intentional foul. It is not. Grabbing the worst foul shooter as he runs up the floor is an intentional foul and should be called. Fouling the first person to touch an inbounds pass within 1 second is not amped up defense. It is an intentional foul, and should be called. Yes, it involves judgment, but, like the Supreme Court said about pornography, "I know it when I see it". And we see too much of it at the end of BB games, both college and pro.

DeAndre Jordan gets 28 free throws in one half. Pretty exciting. and some of those were intentional. And some would not have happened it the Clips had gotten two shots and the ball. I know: "free throws are part of the game". If everyone could make 2/3 of their free throws, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

As an aside, does anyone have a theory why big muscular guys are the ones who seem to struggle at the line (Shaq, Wilt, Ben Wallace, Cris Dudley, D. H?oward)

[The Oracle]

Why are you discussing the hack a strategy in this thread? It doesn't ever happen in CBB. Fouling at the end of the game to try and get back into won't be and shouldn't be messed with.

[iam416]

You are conflating the shot clock and intentional fouling. One has little to do with the other.

Ummm, in Valvano's day they sure did since there was no shot clock. Since you were referencing Valvano -- and days of no shot clock -- it was precisely on point. If you follow and understand hoops.

But, Oracle is right -- why are you talking NBA? This stuff doesn't really happen in the NCAA.

[Hannibal]

Basketball is the only sport where the last minute is actually more exciting if one team has a big lead.

Not a big fan of the shot clock change though.

[Da Geezer]

Oracle:

First, I didn't know where to put a question about the rule changes. Suggestions?

Second, the idea of the timeout changes and the shot clock is to speed up the game. Free throw shooting lengthens the game. So I said we wouldn't have a parade to the line at the end of CBB games if intentional fouls were called. That is in the rule book. If you like the fouling at the end of a game, fine. Then change the rule on intentional fouling by making an intentional foul a technical for a foul that can hurt someone. I could live with that. But if you want to shorten games, calling intentional fouls is an easy way to do it without changing the rules

Third, sorry about bringing the "hack-a" up. but don't say it doesn't happen in college. Watch some film of Patrick Ewing.

And Talent, I can see your point. I think you are saying that WITH a clock, once a team spends say 15 seconds trying to steal the ball, they generally will not commit an intentional and will try to get a stop. WITHOUT a clock, they can still use the hypothetical 15 seconds and be no closer to a stop, so they would tend to just really ramp it up and if a foul gets called, then it does. I would respectfully suggest that you watch the 1983 tournament games that NC State played and see if you can see any intentional fouls. If you are honest, you will see a lot of them as the end of the game gets closer (a time clock of sorts, I grant you).

[Hannibal]

The refs definitely need to call more intentional fouls. Aggressively going for steals is one thing but when a guy grabs another guy with both hands right when he gets the ball it's clearly an intentional and the game would be better off without that boring shit.