MICHIGAN'S MEN'S BASKETBALL: 2015-2016

[hack]

Facts are facts though. They lost their best player and punked the conference and almost went to the Final Four. You don't need your best player on the floor to try hard. You shouldn't blame injuries when the full squad loses back-to-back home games to NJIT and EMU.

Do you want to, in a very level-headed and balanced way, address the effort/defense issues. Dakich does. Almost every game he calls. It seems that the people who want to talk about injuries do not want to mention this aspect of it.

[WM Wolverine]

I mention both, I also mention JB's ignoring quality interior recruits who aren't good shooters but can rebound and play defense.

[hack]

I think recruiting is important as is the health of the players, etc. etc. But the baseline expectation is that the team goes out and does the best it can, and that's not happening. There are any number of ways to see it in action. You can watch the games and see the number of miscues, you can listen to Dakich, you can look at the overall defensive stats, which I wouldn't rely on solely but do point to the same narrative as Dakich, the results, the spankings from rivals who play like they mean it, etc. etc. Everything is pointing in the same direction. Yes, it would be nice to have elite recruits who stay healthy. But that's not the real problem.

I personally think it's notable that if you take the three golden years of 12-14, you have a team that featured recruits nobody/few wanted who played their guts out (i.e. Novak and to a lesser extent Burke) and also a team with a pre-season All American who basically played no meaningful minutes (McGary).

[hack]

IMO the recruiting discussion is very important. It hasn't improved to where it needs to be, but certainly it has improved, and at a cost. Michigan no longer takes kids like Novak and Douglass. The bulk of the team is no longer scrappy kids with a good shot. They are now skilled kids with a good shots. Maybe it's completely unrelated but with this change the defense has gone downhill fast. If you want to make the case for recruiting, it's not only about the stars he's been bridesmaid for. It's about the mentality of the kids he goes after. He's said it himself. I think it's very likely that one of these days he hits on a top-20 kid, brings that kid in here, and we still might have the same problem because all the other recruits are skilled but not spirited. Unless he starts evaluating kids on how they play and not just what skills they have and how they might develop.

[The Oracle]

That goes against the whiney mentality here WM.

Recruiting does have to improve to be a national power and there are things to pick apart.

However, in any objective world, losing your top player and other role players does have an impact on things.

Objectively looking at things-
Should they have won at Tosu? Maybe. It was pointed out that the bucks have been a very good team at home. I think it would have been a very big win for Michigan. I still think 2 more wins (including B1G tourney play) gets them in the tourney. 3 more, they're a lock. Wins over Texas, Maryland and Purdue are all resume'-builders. No losses to bad teams. They should get to 20 wins and have a winning conference record. Those are things that usually get a team into the dance.

Is this a season for the ages? Not at this point. Is it an embarrassment? No. They still have a chance to be a Sweet 16 team, which is what I thought they looked like in October. To do it without LeVert and Spike seems like it would be overachieving.

Players matter. Did Phil Jackson become a shit coach without Jordan? Was Chuck Daly worse when coaching Kenny Anderson or Penny Hardaway instead of Isiah? Is Izzo better off with having his 3 seniors playing than not?

Beilein is still a good coach. Like I said, he does need to improve his recruiting to have Michigan vying for B1G titles on the regular. They need something big to happen in the 2017 class.

Several posters get very K-statian in this area when things aren't going great. It doesn't have to been seen as all or nothing.

[hack]

Best win of the past two years = Maryland. Best player was out.
Worst loss of the past two years = NJIT. Best player played.

[Kstat]

Given how many games LaVert has missed over the last 2 years the odds of both the best win and worst loss coming with him on the floor are minuscule. If it wasn't Maryland it would have been another team, and no B1G loss would have been capable of trumping NJIT.

Not to mention the team was far from healthy even against NJIT. Beilein hasn't had a complete/healthy team for a single game since the 2013 Final Four and he nearly made a return trip without one. If you'd like to use that to argue against his recruiting go right ahead, but it absolutely hinders his ability to properly coach his team and he's proven he knows how to coach.

[Paul L]

Sure, it's reasonable to expect the team to take a step back without Caris and Spike, but that doesn't excuse the frequent, complete lack of effort, the horrendous post player-recruiting by Beilein, and his failure to instill even the basics of defense. Not to mention their inability to even keep things close in all of their losses this year, most to mediocre opponents.

They play soft, and always will under Beilein, save a few individual anomalies like Zak, Nikki Buckets and Burke.

As someone mentioned previously, the shitstorm from 20+ years ago continues to be used as a crutch by apologists for the lack of/not establishing an above average to great BB program.

There's no reason why M can't be a (consistent) top-tier B1G BB program, but Beilein ain't getting 'em there, and won't. A coaching change is due, and necessary.

[lineygoblue]

So .. supposing Warde Manuel decides to pull the trigger and "upgrade" the men's basketball coach position ...

Who's out there that would be willing to leave where they are, and come to Michigan ... and has a better proven record than Beilein?

[The Oracle]

I'm sure Trimble will break out of his slump today.

[Mike]

14-0 run. How high will it go?

[Mike]

Nice response to get to within 5 at the half.

[WM Wolverine]

M's only 2 games back of the conference, this team is playing about (or above) where you'd expect considering their are without their best player.

[The Oracle]

No Dawkins today. Not surprising or interesting, but good to see.

[Mike]

M's only 2 games back of the conference, this team is playing about (or above) where you'd expect considering their are without their best player.

Which of their 8 double digit losses would have been a win with Levert in the lineup?