All Things Notre Dame - The Clashmore Mike Memorial Thread

[Clashmore Mike]

True in theory but it works from previous expansion the first team that leaves more or less 'sets' the exit fee.

That is always how I looked at it...but our forum counsel is saying otherwise. If the exit cost is determined by what a school can show in damages, then the damage incurred by Wake Forest by Maryland bolting and being replaced by Louisville is minimal. Lets say the ACC gets $5m out of Maryland.

Now, if Boston College left and Syracuse was immediately tabbed, then that $5m might serve as a good precedent because its a roughly similar situation.

However, If FSU/Clemson/UNC all bolt at once, the ACC crumbles and the damage to Wake Forest is catastrophic. The $5m cost previously attributed to Maryland doesn't even come close to covering the damages.

[Clashmore Mike]

Talent...?

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my intent have you respond. If the costs of exiting a conference are characterized as damages, can they be shown to be in the tens or hundreds of millions ?

[Optimus Prime]

Not but a few hours north of Ann Arbor, sure he is an asshole but he's playing for a national championship with fatboy Weis' players. BTW, in addition to his head coaching duties, his offensive play-calling was choice this season.

As for in Ann Arbor, we've got essentially a Wal-Mart Greeter hugging every player that comes off the field as if he has down syndrome. Someone get him a headset and get him into the game.

BTW, all good things must come to an end, Bama is going to roll these fuckers, pronto.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-12-19/brian-kelly-notre-dame-ap-coach-of-year-bill-obrien-penn-state-nick-saban

[iam416]

If the costs of exiting a conference are characterized as damages, can they be shown to be in the tens or hundreds of millions ?

Could. Damages are fact-based. As has been discussed, the damage Maryland caused is minimal; the damage caused by a 4-team exodus would be substantial. At the same time, that amount is split amongst 4-teams, so their pro-rate share may not amount to much.

I'll assume some facts, but let's use Wake Forest. Maryland's exit damages Wake Forest by, roughly, $0. Even without Maryland, the ACC would still have a championship game, the TV contract wouldn't be reduced, and Wake wouldn't lose any valuable home games. Perhaps there's a slight diminuition in reputation and the award to the ACC is something like $500,000 split 13 ways.

If FSU, Clemson, GT and Miami leave for the B12 and the ACC falls apart, Wake will suffer actual damages. Let's say they were going to get $20M from TV for 10 years. They're going to join a conference that will offer much less. Let's say, $5M from TV for 10 years. That's $150M. Let's add in potential lost revenue from bowls (assuming the ACC splits all bowl proceeds evenly) and the NCAA tournament and lost home game revenue (LMAO) -- maybe another $10M. So, that's $160M split between 4 teams and then reduced to a present value amount which is probably closer to $120M or even less. And I think that's about as good as Wake could hope to do.

What that should tell you is that there is power in numbers. And what happens when those 4 schools bolt -- the rest of the league disintegrates -- with each departing team breaching the terms of the agreement. Wake may not sue them, but I guarantee you the other 4 schools would bring them into the suit. So, if 8 other schools depart for different conferences, then share goes down. And down. And down.

And Wake is the worst-case example. BC may be next. Pitt and Syracuse, I think will land ok. Duke will.

Anyway, this is all trees stuff. The forest is that the B10 will take who they want without regard to the $50M exit fee. The forest is that the ACC is, IMO, dead. The B10 isn't stopping at 14 and, TBH, I don't think Slive likes 14 too much, either. And the ACC exists at the whim of Delaney and Slive. Again, unless ND decides to conference-up, which we all know won't happen.

[DookSucks]

I haven't read many posts since Talent's post a page or two back explaining damages. However, here is a quick summation of NC's law regarding this issue:

1. Liquidation Damages clauses like the ACC's exit fee are enforceable in NC.
2. The party seeking to void the Liquidation Damages clause have the burden of showing that the Liquidation Damages clause is in reality a penalty instead of being a provision designed to make the non-breaching party whole.
3. The general rule is that the amount stipulated in a contract as liquidated damages for a breach, if not a penalty, may be recovered in the event of a breach even though no actual damages are suffered. E. Carolina Internal Med., P.A. v. Faidas, 149 N.C. App. 940

So, in short, good fucking luck in NC Courts, Maryland, and good fucking luck trying to enforce the judgment in Maryland, ACC.

[DookSucks]

I would imagine that Maryland would try to remove the case to Federal District Court if possible unless there is some provision in the ACC bylaws or what not preventing that.

[DookSucks]

The Complaint is here: http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/doc...lege-park/154/

[DookSucks]

Here is the citation for the case that deals with the burden issue: 182 N.C. App. 128

[Pasadena Blue]

no way MD pays ... won't matter if the ACC fold like a cheap tent before this case gets resolved in a few years. Would be great to see the Dookies become independent. Maybe they'll join the new Catholic league?

[DennisT]

Blue Devils and Sun Devils would both be good adds for the Catholic league. Throw poster child and Hurricanes in and you're a good way to Sinners and Saints divisions.

[iam416]

Thanks, DS. I think your concluding take is spot on. Good stuff.

[Clashmore Mike]

Could. Damages are fact-based...

If FSU, Clemson, GT and Miami leave for the B12 and the ACC falls apart, Wake will suffer actual damages. Let's say they were going to get $20M from TV for 10 years. They're going to join a conference that will offer much less. Let's say, $5M from TV for 10 years. That's $150M. Let's add in potential lost revenue from bowls (assuming the ACC splits all bowl proceeds evenly) and the NCAA tournament and lost home game revenue (LMAO) -- maybe another $10M. So, that's $160M split between 4 teams and then reduced to a present value amount which is probably closer to $120M or even less. And I think that's about as good as Wake could hope to do.

This is what I was trying to understand. Thanks.

[Clashmore Mike]

I haven't read many posts since Talent's post a page or two back explaining damages. However, here is a quick summation of NC's law regarding this issue:

1. Liquidation Damages clauses like the ACC's exit fee are enforceable in NC.
2. The party seeking to void the Liquidation Damages clause have the burden of showing that the Liquidation Damages clause is in reality a penalty instead of being a provision designed to make the non-breaching party whole.
3. The general rule is that the amount stipulated in a contract as liquidated damages for a breach, if not a penalty, may be recovered in the event of a breach even though no actual damages are suffered. E. Carolina Internal Med., P.A. v. Faidas, 149 N.C. App. 940

So, in short, good fucking luck in NC Courts, Maryland, and good fucking luck trying to enforce the judgment in Maryland, ACC.

So if I understand you correctly, the exit fees would would have to be considered much more significantly by UNC / Duke / NCST / Wake than a school outside of NC...

Thanks for the input btw...

[iam416]

NC won't be the next to go. But they will go. It's a dead league. Only a matter of time.

[Pasadena Blue]

NC won't be the next to go. But they will go. It's a dead league. Only a matter of time.

exactly .... all MD has to do is drag this out in court until the ACC folds ... no one left to collect/pursue the exit fee.

Virginia is a great academic school, GTech not so much ... if GTech even an AAU institution?