All Things Notre Dame - The Clashmore Mike Memorial Thread

[hack]

That's better at least, thank you. I would have agreed to a greater extent were it not for that we would be challenged here to name a player on the offense who has improved year to year apart from perhaps Dileo, who is getting more balls this year. Taylor Martinez has come back a better passer with better technique this year. I wonder why Denard hasn't. It could be that has something to do with Borges, or it could not. But at this point it's only fair to wonder. Especially since that halfback pass and the in-hindsight Gardner>WR moves were as reckless as it gets, to the point where for me I wonder what else is very poorly thought out in the whole Borges approach. I'm delighted about the ball security, though that doesn't necessarily reflect on Borges. Factor in Hoke hinting he's put the whole offense on a short leash and also the defense's abilities to recover fumbles as well.

If Borges is going to be here a while however, I hope it doesn't get divisive. Sorry if you're frustrated about it but I suspect the vitriol is going to continue. Hopefully Borges puts a stop to it though.

[Paul L]

Not frustrated, just struggling. :-) I do share some of the same worries, though, but willing to give Borges the benefit of the doubt/cut him some some slack (for another few games, at least...)

What's most troubling is Hoke's inability to land any top-shelf WRs/RBs to this point.

Will move that to the recruiting thread, though, so as not to piss Mike off further.

[hack]

Well that's fine -- each of us have the right to lose faith in Borges at different times and for different reasons.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I'll happily attest that Mike was an insufferable ND prick back in the early 90's as well.

[WingsFan]

Stoops has a history of laying an egg in big games, but this one was a home game. Pitt may have been a bit of a emotional let down after the Sooners. ND can win out, they should be the favorite to beat SC this year (?) can't remember when SC playing the spoiler roll. I say toss up, BC first though (and Wake), BC would love to throw another wrench in ND's season.

[iam416]

I'm not sure why anyone would have to own up to "ND is a has been". I'm not sure of the positions taken, but I think "has beens" are capable of anomalous seasons. For example, I certainly don't think Kansas State is a national power program. In fact, I think KSU is a small-time program with a good coach. The fact that KSU is amongst the top 3 teams in the country doesn't make me any less wrong about that. What would make me wrong is if KSU turned into a perenennial top 10 team.

Same with ND. One could look at this season and say, ha! Notre Dame is BACK! And presumably, "back" means back to what ND once was -- a perennial top 10 program. I would argue, though, that the better supported extrapolation is that this is an anomalous season and that until ND strings together 3 or so good seasons under BK, the former conclusion is far more wishful thinking than reality.

I haven't a clue what ND returns next season other than their QB. (Sidebar--having seen him a play a bit, now, the comparisions to Braxton Miller as relayed to me by Clash are ridiculous.) I know BK is bringing in good recruiting classes. But other than that, I don't anything about ND's future prospects.

As for this season, any team that can dominate at least one side of the LOS will always be in the game. Against Alabama, I think ND lose something on the order of 24-10, but in a way that made it feel worse. It would only be 17-3 or something with 25 minutes left, but everyone would know ND could play 150 minutes and not score 2 more TDs.

Against Oregon, I think it's close game. I have a habitually lower opinion of Oregon's offense than most. I've seen them play great defenses (OSU and Auburn) and get stifled. And the teams they're railing are piss-poor on defense. USC is god-awful defensively. It will be interesting to see if they can mow down Stanford, but Stanford never really has an elite defense. It's always lacking the speed to slow down the Ducks. Anyway, I also think the Oregon defense is underrated. I'd pick Oregon over ND at something like 31-27.

I think ND is probably even with KSU. Just my own eye check. In terms of season accomplishments, KSU has done more. They played a close a game at Norman, but haven't been touched anywhere else. As Crash noted, ND's biggest liability, IMO, is their schedule. It's just not good.

My final thought on ND is that they remind a bit of the 2002 OSU team. Perhaps inversed -- the OSU team was fantastic at home, but wobbly on the road. The OSU team also played a pretty strong schedule. But that aside, the way they win games and their national perception is similar. OSU had to keep waiting for teams to lose. Finally the last of them did (OU at aTm on same day as OSU-Purdue game). And OSU got their shot at an invincible defending national champ. Frankly, probably more invincible looking than Bama (34 straight wins at the time).

[WM Wolverine]

BC and Wake are awful; ND's offense isn't very good but they should win those by 30+. USC is ND's only game left.

[Clashmore Mike]

Stay steady, Clash. It's all good. But what did you expect now that ND's actually a combination of good and lucky? Of course there's going to be some frustration and resentment here...

Acknowledged, agreed and appreciated. But I gotta say?piling on ND?s shortcomings after a tight win is one thing. I probably need to exercise a bit more discretion with that?but calling out my loyalty as an ND fan as suddenly an issue? That is some cheap and weak shit.

It's been a dramatic season. But I?ll try to do a better job of not lashing out at the forum in general and remind myself that it only takes a minority to reflect poorly upon the whole. Just because a couple of you are assholes, doesn?t make all of you assholes. Many of you have been either outright gracious about this season, or at least have been courteous enough not to antagonize me on this thread.

[Clashmore Mike]

I'm not sure why...

...BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH...

...BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH...

...BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH...


You think I'm going to read all that? Just STFU...Please.

...more invincible looking than Bama (34 straight wins at the time).

[hack]

And likewise, Clash, we here in return pledge to remember that while you are indeed a sandbagging asshole in every way, you are a sandbagging asshole in every way who shouldn't have to apologize when the refs hand you a win.

[Clashmore Mike]

I'll happily attest that Mike was an insufferable ND prick back in the early 90's as well.

Heh...at least it was warranted then...

[Clashmore Mike]

And likewise, Clash, we here in return pledge to remember that while you are indeed a sandbagging asshole in every way, you are a sandbagging asshole in every way who shouldn't have to apologize when the refs hand you a win.

Thank you...that wasn't so hard was it?

[Clashmore Mike]

So my previous response was just to provoke you if you were online. I appreciate the time and effort to write out decent posts.

I'm not sure why anyone would have to own up to "ND is a has been". I'm not sure of the positions taken, but I think "has beens" are capable of anomalous seasons. For example, I certainly don't think Kansas State is a national power program. In fact, I think KSU is a small-time program with a good coach. The fact that KSU is amongst the top 3 teams in the country doesn't make me any less wrong about that. What would make me wrong is if KSU turned into a perenennial top 10 team.

Same with ND. One could look at this season and say, ha! Notre Dame is BACK! And presumably, "back" means back to what ND once was -- a perennial top 10 program. I would argue, though, that the better supported extrapolation is that this is an anomalous season and that until ND strings together 3 or so good seasons under BK, the former conclusion is far more wishful thinking than reality.

Certainly I’m not in a position to tout that “Notre Dame is back” (nor have I). My sense of self-esteem is still bruised from the dramatic rise and fall of the ’02 season and the cruel reality of ’05 to ’06. There are rational reasons for one to argue it, but it’s all theory…and that theory is in direct contrast to fairly recent history.

But then you’ve taken this in a direction I haven’t. My point was intended to be more of a compare/contrast thing…by that I mean the lengths some will go to dismiss any success ND shows. From just this thread in the last month:

• “If there is a God ND will make it to the BCS Championship game and get ass raped once again in a BCS bowl.”
  
• “Hey, I say let them play Alabama for the national title next week. If they're really the #2 team in the country, why not settle it now? Lets have the Irish vs Bama.”
  
• “I'm not sure how ND isn't #1. What grit. Clearly a top shelf team and most likely better than alabama.”
  
• “The only good thing about ND being undefeated is that it takes them one step closer to getting b**ch slapped by Alabama. That is one MNC game that I would love to watch.”

Really? Perhaps we’re talking about a different Alabama. Certainly you can’t mean an undefeated, all-season-long consensus #1 Alabama? The defending national champion Alabama? The playing for it’s third title in four years from the conference that has dominated the game for the last decade Alabama? Certainly not. After all, ND is a program that lost ten games in the last two seasons…so it would be silly to think that any reasonable discussion would be based on ND vs Alabama. I’m sure you guys have a lot of other teams favored to beat Alabama…and just aren’t posting about it anywhere on the forum.

Perhaps I’m looking at this wrong. Perhaps, at this point, there really isn’t anything else for you to say…and I should be enjoying this?

I haven't a clue what ND returns next season other than their QB. (Sidebar--having seen him a play a bit, now, the comparisions to Braxton Miller as relayed to me by Clash are ridiculous.) I know BK is bringing in good recruiting classes. But other than that, I don't anything about ND's future prospects.

As far as next year goes, we’ll be in pretty good shape personnel-wise if our LT Martin and NG Nix come back for their final season of eligibility. Both are anchors on their respective side of the line of scrimmage. But I don’t know that it’s possible to measure the loss of Teo’. Although there is a bunch of talented depth at almost every position, I still think it’s a different (and not nearly as clutch) defense without him. He makes every player on that defense better. Back in September, A long-time trusted ND insider called Teo’ “the most important player at ND in 20 years”. I thought that was a bit dramatic then…but am in absolute agreement now.

Offensively, everything will depend on Golson making that exponential jump that good QBs make from 1st year starter to 2nd year starter. We’ll have to see. In that regard, I think one of the most important returning players will actually be Tommy Rees. He’s not going to the NFL…and I’m sure he knows it. He’s been a critical part in getting this team to 9-0.

Kelly really has to address returns and coverage on special teams in the off-season. I’m shocked that hasn’t cost us a game yet…just a matter of time.

Also, just to be clear, I wasn’t comparing Golson to Miller…I just wanted your take on some Ohio ND fans who were comparing Golson to the Miller of last season.

As for this season, any team that can dominate at least one side of the LOS will always be in the game. Against Alabama, I think ND lose something on the order of 24-10, but in a way that made it feel worse. It would only be 17-3 or something with 25 minutes left, but everyone would know ND could play 150 minutes and not score 2 more TDs.

After last week, I don’t even like talking in these terms with three games left, including USC…but I am in complete agreement. I’d project Alabama to get at least one TD on special teams and perpetually win the field position battle enough while we sat in a hole.

Against Oregon, I think it's close game. I have a habitually lower opinion of Oregon's offense than most. I've seen them play great defenses (OSU and Auburn) and get stifled. And the teams they're railing are piss-poor on defense. USC is god-awful defensively. It will be interesting to see if they can mow down Stanford, but Stanford never really has an elite defense. It's always lacking the speed to slow down the Ducks. Anyway, I also think the Oregon defense is underrated. I'd pick Oregon over ND at something like 31-27.

Don’t know enough about Oregon. The next few weeks will tell us...they may be better than each of their final four opponents, but it could get tough lined up like that. I certainly wouldn’t pick ND to beat them. A shoot-out would be a nightmare scenario for us.

I think ND is probably even with KSU. Just my own eye check. In terms of season accomplishments, KSU has done more. They played a close a game at Norman, but haven't been touched anywhere else. As Crash noted, ND's biggest liability, IMO, is their schedule. It's just not good.

I think this was where (if it comes to it), ND lost the Pitt game, despite winning the Pitt game. I know our schedule isn’t all it was supposed to be…but there is nothing to apologize for either. It seems to me that there are a lot KSU conference opponents that will end up being bowl-bound with 7-9 wins…but few of them seem to have really distinguished themselves (WVa / TxT / OKST / TCU / etc.). For the most part, they played shit out of conference, and then each seems to have a couple losses to each other. We had a basis for argument against KSU…two common opponents. We both destroyed Miami. And then we clearly out-performed against Oklahoma. But I think the piss-poor performance against Pitt has really fucked up that rationale.

Perhaps Alabama, Oregon, KSU and ND all end up undefeated and we end up with two "championship" bowls with four, and then two, undefeated teams? That would certainly be a fitting way to end the non-playoff/pre-plus-one era. One last CFB controversy for us all to bitch about for life.

My final thought on ND is that they remind a bit of the 2002 OSU team. Perhaps inversed -- the OSU team was fantastic at home, but wobbly on the road. The OSU team also played a pretty strong schedule. But that aside, the way they win games and their national perception is similar. OSU had to keep waiting for teams to lose. Finally the last of them did (OU at aTm on same day as OSU-Purdue game). And OSU got their shot at an invincible defending national champ. Frankly, probably more invincible looking than Bama (34 straight wins at the time).

Well…I think that’s awesome. Only time will tell if this is an anomalous season. If it is, then I’m simply going to enjoy it. If it isn’t, then I’m simply going to enjoy it…because after this, the gratification of being an underdog with exceeded expectations is over. Then it starts to become an expectation with disappointment and frustration with anything less than perfection.

I don’t know enough to agree or disagree with your ’02 OSU contrast, but how could I, given the last couple of seasons, not be enthralled to hear a Buckeye even mention ND in the same vein as that team?

[lineygoblue]

I’m sure you guys have a lot of other teams favored to beat Alabama…and just aren’t posting about it anywhere on the forum.

I can't speak for the rest of the crew here, but right now, I can't think of any other CFB team in the country, that's I'd make a favorite over Alabama.

[Clashmore Mike]

I can't speak for the rest of the crew here, but right now, I can't think of any other CFB team in the country, that's I'd make a favorite over Alabama.

Nor can I. But therein lies my point...my world isn't going to fall apart IF, ND manages to win out...and IF, Oregon and KSU lose a game...and then ND gets a shot and loses.

If this isn't an anomalous season, and some Seniors can show half the leadership Teo' has...then we'll get another crack. I can wait.


I see Pitt is shitting the bed against UConn btw...that certainly doesn't inspire confidence.