All Things Notre Dame - The Clashmore Mike Memorial Thread

[Clashmore Mike]

I am sure Kelly will be able to whitewash this a la Michael Floyd-style.

A bit curious that you wanted to go there...after all, we never finished our discussion on this topic from a few months ago after you deleted your posts on the subject after being exposed as woefully incorrect.

Anyway, the topic was Michael Floyd and Darryl Stonum. Both had been busted for DUI and you were comparing Kelly's treatment of Floyd to Hokes treatment of Stonum.

So it's a year later and where are we...?

Floyd graduated last December, having earned a Sociology degree in 3.5 years with a 3.2 gpa average. He was just selected in the first round of the NFL draft.

Last I heard, Stonum was sucking dick in the prison shower for a pack of lucky strikes...a different kind of "whitewash" perhaps?

As I recall, there were more than a few Michigan fans here who had some pretty strong opinions on this subject and were very clear in articulating how Hoke's brand of discipline was far superior in molding michigan men, than Kelly could ever achieve. I'd like to hear from you as well...don't leave your boy Optimus Prime hanging...


;-)

[iam416]

Talk about walking into a buzzsaw. Nice.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Stonum just graduated as well. He's looking to transfer to EMU last I heard. Hoke kicked him off the team. Kelly made him a captain.

And Kelly reminds me a lot of RichRod. He's the smartest guy in the room. He makes the talent better, and eventually his unorthodox ways will be proven right.

[Clashmore Mike]

Talk about walking into a buzzsaw. Nice.

There are some flights of fantasy that are so pathetic that they cannot be overlooked. Just a couple years ago...these exact same guys were touting Dick-Rod's (remember when it was a ban-able offense to call him "dick-rod"? Now it's SOP apparently) non-handling of Kevin Grady...and Darryl Stonum for that matter...all the while trashing ND for expelling 1st time DUI infractions.

Now of course, ND could learn a couple things about discipline from coach Hoke...a guy none of these posters wanted just a year ago...lol...

[Clashmore Mike]

Hoke kicked him off the team.

Right?right?I heard about that?when you say it like that, it almost sounds like Hoke took the kind of decisive and resolute action Notre Dame fans could only wish our institution would take. Let me try...

• Three years after Stonum?s 1st driving while suspended infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Three years after Stonum?s 1st DUI infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Two years after Stonum 1st parole violation earning jail time: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Seven months after Stonum?s 2nd driving while suspended infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Seven months after Stonum?s 2nd DUI infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Five months after Stonum?s 3rd driving while suspended infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Two weeks after Stonum 2nd parole violation earning jail time: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?

Just an FYI?Floyd was a designated captain before his 1st DUI. Never after. In ?11 ND had a single captain for the first time in over ten years?it?s fairly well documented. It would be at this point that Optimus Prime would delete his post?

And Kelly reminds me a lot of RichRod. He's the smartest guy in the room. He makes the talent better, and eventually his unorthodox ways will be proven right.

Seriously? This is what you?re putting out? This is the kind of pointless ass-grabbing that someone posts?when they really don?t have anything to post. Come on man?

[SeattleLionsFan]

I was once like you Mike. I thought RichRod was smart too. But he sucked. Maybe Kelly will turn it around. Or maybe he will turn purpler and purpler.

Once Hoke came in, he didn't let Stonum play. He suspended him and made him get his life together. When he didnt, he was excused from the team.

Much like when Furman had a run in with the law he was suspended. Once he was acquitted he was back on the team.

I personally don't think we can judge the "right" move for a player in that situation. We don't know them well enough to know the circumstances or what would motivate them to turn it around. So don't think I am saying that Kelly did anything wrong. But it's foolish to even pretend that Hoke and Kelly treated the situations the same.

I hope Mike Floyd has it worked out and wont be robbing donut shops like another unnamed ND star wideout. I am also very happy that Stonum graduated. I hope he can stay on the straight and narrow. I don't think anything these guys did is an indication of an evil intent.

I'm pretty sure I remember some unnamed posters doing much worse when we...I mean they...were that age.

[Rob F]

Now of course, ND could learn a couple things about discipline from coach Hoke...a guy none of these posters wanted just a year ago...lol...

none? You couldn't be more wrong, Clash! Yes, I know many here expressed disappointment, some even anger, at the hiring of Hoke, but to say "none" like you did is quite inaccurate, to say the least.

[Rob F]

Right?right?I heard about that?when you say it like that, it almost sounds like Hoke took the kind of decisive and resolute action Notre Dame fans could only wish our institution would take. Let me try...

• Three years after Stonum?s 1st driving while suspended infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Three years after Stonum?s 1st DUI infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Two years after Stonum 1st parole violation earning jail time: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Seven months after Stonum?s 2nd driving while suspended infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Seven months after Stonum?s 2nd DUI infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Five months after Stonum?s 3rd driving while suspended infraction: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?
• Two weeks after Stonum 2nd parole violation earning jail time: ?Hoke kicked him off the team?

Just an FYI?Floyd was a designated captain before his 1st DUI. Never after. In ?11 ND had a single captain for the first time in over ten years?it?s fairly well documented. It would be at this point that Optimus Prime would delete his post?




Seriously? This is what you?re putting out? This is the kind of pointless ass-grabbing that someone posts?when they really don?t have anything to post. Come on man?

I could turn that last paragraph around at you Clash---but I'll give you the benefit of explaining yourself better re: the top portion of your post. You point out all those DUI offenses of Stonum, but then seem to pin it on Hoke, as if it were Hoke's choice to allow Stonum to be re-instated when he wasn't on staff when those decisions were made.

Hoke was then hired, Stonum f'd up again, despite repeated 2nd chance granted by the previous staff, and Hoke ushered him completely out of the program as soon as the courts got done with him first---yet you seem to be bad-mouthing Hoke for his handling of the situation.

Is there something here I'm misinterpreting? Please explain or clarify...

[lineygoblue]

and at the end of it all, Stonum has his degree.

[hack]

Thanks for the thoughts, Mike, but I don't see how the Hoke business is such a big deal. He had a mediocre record and the whole thing seemed like nepotism and more of the blindered arrogance that so often comes out of the school's administration. There plenty of reasons to be skeptical. Many of us who didn't like it are delighted to have been proven wrong thus far, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Clashmore Mike]

I was once like you Mike. I thought RichRod was smart too...

Heh?then you weren?t like me. I?ve got some serious concerns about Kelly?namely that headed into year three the QB situation is a black hole at best. Also, that some of our special team play is severely lacking. At the same time we are seeing improvement in the areas that are critical to a healthy, consistently competitive program. Notre Dame?s line play on both sides of the ball is as good as it?s been in ten years. Our defense is night and day better than it?s been since Mattison left, we have a consistent (and consistently improving) running game for the first time since '01, and we are recruiting well enough to be a top ten program. I?ve got Kelly?s back through this season at least.

I personally don't think we can judge the "right" move for a player in that situation...

Well it?s too bad nobody was willing to offer that kind of rational sentiment a year ago. I wasn?t looking to get into this with you, but you walked into it. A couple years ago, a 1st time DUI was enough to dismiss an ND player from the team, if not the school. At the same time, this crowd was rationalizing six-ways-to-Sunday about how Kevin Grady, Darryl Stonum, etc. had more than paid their dues. Then last year?the first time the tyrants at ND went with a mainstream punishment I?ve got the majority of this board?many of them the same folks who supported Dick Rod?s intentional blindness?in my face trashing ND and touting the tough moral discipline of Hoke. A total 180 based on the name of the Michigan coach?not any kind of principal. It?s the nature of a homer board?and it?s been awhile since I?ve gotten some cheap kicks exposing it and pushing it back into your faces?which as always?I limit to my own thread.

[Clashmore Mike]

none? You couldn't be more wrong, Clash! Yes, I know many here expressed disappointment, some even anger, at the hiring of Hoke, but to say "none" like you did is quite inaccurate, to say the least.

Ok. I guess much in the same way that some ND fans were disappointed in losing out on Meyer for Weis...yet still pleased with Weis over Willingham.

[Clashmore Mike]

I could turn that last paragraph around at you Clash---but I'll give you the benefit of explaining yourself better re: the top portion of your post. You point out all those DUI offenses of Stonum, but then seem to pin it on Hoke, as if it were Hoke's choice to allow Stonum to be re-instated when he wasn't on staff when those decisions were made.

...

Is there something here I'm misinterpreting? Please explain or clarify...

Appreciate the way you put that. The misinterpretation is that I'm ridiculing a couple posters on your forum for blatant hypocrisy...not the Hoke/Stonum issue specifically. Between you and I, I don't have any issue with Hoke and discipline...I just don't think that, as an ND fan, I have to apologize for Jack-Shit to hyper-homer Michigan fans over discipline issues less than a year after Dick-Rod bolted.

[Clashmore Mike]

and at the end of it all, Stonum has his degree.

Did not know that...good for him. Seriously.

[Clashmore Mike]

Thanks for the thoughts, Mike, but I don't see how the Hoke business is such a big deal. He had a mediocre record and the whole thing seemed like nepotism and more of the blindered arrogance that so often comes out of the school's administration. There plenty of reasons to be skeptical. Many of us who didn't like it are delighted to have been proven wrong thus far, and there's nothing wrong with that.

It's not a big deal...I was just poking fun, but was probably being a bit hypocritical myself. These coaching searches can be as emotionally draining as any other aspect of CFB. To this day I can remember the time/place when the O'Leary fiasco transpired...when Urban chose Florida. Not unlike 911 or when the space shuttle blew up. I remember being up until 3am hitting refresh on mssg boards waiting for some hump to pass along his cousin's girlfriend's "insider" uncle's hearsay that ND had spoken with Gruden...etc.

I remember coming over here and trying to tell you guys to be calm/patient...when I know I wouldn't have been. You got the right guy. In alot of ways I'm happy for you...in other ways it just reminds me what dicks most of you were when we were dealing with the same thing.

Regardless...and again...Michael Floyd fucked up. He was disciplined and given a set of criteria to earn a 2nd chance. He earned it. I've got nothing to apologize for when it comes to Notre Dame and off-field issues. Neither am I going to apologize for handing out some shit sandwiches to those of you whose hypocrisy is so blatant. Stonum may have graduated...but given multiple chances did he learn anything? His repeated failure to serve punishment suggests otherwise. In short, the Floyd / Stonum comparison so many were so eager to make a year ago...weren't really comparable at all...and I'm enjoying reminding (some of) you of that.