All Things Notre Dame - The Clashmore Mike Memorial Thread

[Clashmore Mike]

Notre Dame spring game will by broadcast nationally on Versus for all of you that are interested...

...carried via streaming feed here also

http://www.und.com/allaccess/

[lineygoblue]

Mike, you can take charge of this thread, and let me see what I can do about getting you Mod status to run it with. I don't think I can add Mods, but let me check with Deborah.

[lineygoblue]

Mike: I also added in the Notre Dame info in the thread title to avoid any confusion.

[Clashmore Mike]

Thanks Liney...

[*JD*]

Lou Holtz still sucks and he never cleans his dentures.

[The Oracle]

Lou Holtz will always suck and he keeps getting worse...however the hell that is possible.

[Jeff Buchanan]

ND, on Monday, quietly released its final report on the death of a student in a lift accident while he was filming a football practice last year. I don't want to make a big stink about this because a fine young man died tragically. It does bother me, not quite as much as it bothers Dennis Dodd here, that the report concludes everyone is responsible and no one (except Fr. Jenkins who falls on his sword) is reponsible.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/14962824/waiting-for-seriousness-of-situation-to-kick-in-for-notre-dame

[Jamie H]

I actually just view this as an administrative failure. Should someone have been watching weather reports and known it was too dangerous? Yes. Is it understandable that this would not have been a top priority? Also yes. How often does a storm come through where the winds are that high but there isn't enough inclement weather to cancel an outdoor practice? I think that is a rather rare occurrance in the midwest.

It is tragic, and someone dropped the ball. But I see it more as accidental negligence rather than something horrible that should get someone fired. The Univeristy should be responsible, but I don't see what good firing anyone would do. It doesn't sound like the kid was trying to get out of it and someone FORCED him up there, in which case that person would be directly responsible and should be fired if not worse. But I haven't heard anything saying that was the case.

[entropy]

agree Jamie. This was not an accident and the University is responsible. ND needs to put some new processes/practices around it and move forward. This was not an act of neglect or an act of malice. It was an accident.

[Rocky Bleier]

Is there a North Bend, Indiana?

[hodgkal]

This reminds me of the mindset generated by our legal culture. Whenever something bad happens it must be someone's fault and therefore someone has to pay. And of course there is that third party waiting to cash in - lawyers.

Lawyers and insurance companies--two of the reasons our medical care system is so dysfunctional. But the real problem is how the thinking in our society has evolved into always blaming someone else when something bad happens. I think Jamie above said it just right.

[lineygoblue]

Rocky - Your avatar.

Daughter?

She's a very lovely young lady.

[Jamie H]

Yes, some adult should have realized that the situation was unsafe and gotten the kid down. But I don't think it is criminal that this didn't happen, just sad and tragic. The fact that everyone was busy and no one thought about the video crew is not really surprising--I'm sure on a standard day none of the coaches think much about the video crew.

Obviously the schools need rules similar to the rules governing chair-lift operations at ski-resorts. If the wind speed is high enough, you shut it down. But ski resorts have wind sensors to monitor conditions. No football team has a wind sensor. So unless someone happens to look at weather.com during practice, no one knows what the current wind speed is. Someone would have just had to sense that things had gotten dangerous and taken the initiative to shut things down.

It's one of those things that is far more obvious in hind-sight than it is at the time. Until something like this happens, you just don't think it's going to happen.

[Clashmore Mike]

A lot of thoughts on this…all legit…with the exception of Dennis Dodd and his ilk…which I’ll address later.

A kid is dead and it’s natural to feel that someone should swing for it. I find it hard to disagree with that sentiment…but sometimes it is a sentiment. There are a hundred people on Notre Dame’s campus who woulda/coulda/shoulda ensured Sullivan never goes up on that lift. All hundred failed. Which one should be fired? All of them?

I was actually involved in something of a similar situation. Was PM of a small base building project in Annapolis. Got a call on a Saturday morning that one of the concrete workers had fallen off of a scaffold and had to be choppered out of the site to the hospital. He lived, but had to learn to walk again. He’ll never work on a concrete or construction crew. He had two young kids at home.

Of course I was the first person the MOSH inspector wanted to interview…I’m the PM…I’m ultimately responsible. Doesn’t matter that I don’t have the first clue how to erect scaffolding, much less work off of it…doesn’t matter that I have no idea how to set concrete formwork…doesn’t matter that I don’t work for the concrete company.
Turns out that there were two underlying factors:


ONE: The scaffolding had been properly inspected per the manufacturer, per the concrete company and per my (general contractor) requirements. Three separate safety programs, all in compliance. After it had been erected, it was again inspected by the concrete company’s safety compliance officer. However, two days later, work had progressed to the point where the erected scaffolding had to be extended…which the concrete crew did. Their superintendent did an inspection and ok’d it…but it wasn’t inspected by the safety guy who was certified to inspect that type/model…he didn’t work on Saturdays. My superintendent (a 35 year veteran) did an inspection and approved for work to proceed. Important to note, this 2nd inspection was not required by any safety program…it’s just good practice. As we later learned, the handrail / safety rail portion of one section wasn’t properly attached. Nobody will ever know whether that mistake occurred during the initial required erection (which was properly inspected / approved), or following the extension where no additional inspection was required, yet performed anyway by an uncertified inspector.

TWO: The worker who fell was required to use a safety lanyard attached to the scaffolding to a full body harness…which he did…however, he did not attach the lanyard to his harness properly.

If either of the two above items occur by themselves, the accident never happens…the handrail would have prevented the fall without a safety lanyard. A safety lanyard would have prevented the fall without a handrail…but that doesn’t matter…because neither of the two should have happened.

That is where I am just as responsible / culpable as anyone else and still bear the burden of being ultimately responsible. I’m the one who forced the Saturday work to make up some time on the schedule. My superintendent allowed work to proceed after extending the scaffolding…as did the concrete superintendent who also should have raised a red flag with me or his PM and didn’t. Finally, the worker himself was trained on all his safety equipment and still didn’t attach himself properly. In short, we’re all responsible…but I don’t know that any of us were truly negligent…or at least not blatantly negligent.

I'm not surprised at the findings that what happened at ND is somewhat the same...but only somewhat. What is fair game and what sticks out to me more than anything else is the complete and utter lack of common sense displayed at practice that day. My company avoided a fine and charges because we were in compliance with the safety regulations. But there is the paper work afterwards and just plain fucking common sense…it would seem that the ND report addresses the former…I have yet to see anyone explain the lack of the latter.

[Clashmore Mike]

Now…as far as Dennis Dodd and his opinion, I can tell you with a clear conscience that I don’t give a fuck. My entire life I’ve been re-reading his (and plenty of his peers) regurgitated story about how Notre Dame isn’t Notre Dame anymore. How Notre Dame betrayed it’s Catholic ideals…how we’ve betrayed our reputation….how we’ve betrayed our identity.

From Dodd: “…you are fired, Notre Dame -- from our trust, from the place in our minds where football dreams and memories have been made.”
Here’s the problem…I have yet to read a Dennis Dodd story where he has given an ounce of credit to Notre Dame for anything. Where is the Dennis Dodd story where he offers praise for 95+% graduation rates? Where is the Dennis Dodd story where he offers praise for graduating black players at the same rate as we do white players? Where is the Dennis Dodd story where he offers praise for Notre Dame providing the place where “football dreams and memories are made”?

You see, you have to have provided some fucking credit, in order for you to remove it. Otherwise, Dodd is just another ass-hatted shitbag who relies on the Notre Dame label to generate circulation…and negativity sells. Fuck him and his peers.