All Things Notre Dame - The Clashmore Mike Memorial Thread

[Hannibal]

All in all, I think I'd rather deal with nonsensical ND hype and see M eat the 2nd of what I hope will be at least 4 losses

"At least" four losses? LMAO

[hack]

Is ``placeput'' an abbreviation for ``to be put in its place''? If so, I like that. An excellent and amusing bit of jargon much in line with current workplace-verbiage trends...

[iam416]

Correct. As far as I know, I'm the only one who uses it, but I rather like it. I'm also a fan of Goatpen favorite "sonned", but haven't used that in awhile.

Anywho, modify it, too...."Michigan dealt ND a heavy dose of placeputtery back in aught-six." Hours of fun!

[hack]

This is excellent. I am fully on board.

[Optimus Prime]

Michigan has won 5 of the last 6 games and DR has risen to the occasion and then some over the last 2.

Expect another heroic effort by DR and if Toussiant can help carry the load, Blue wins late in another nail-biter.

[Clashmore Mike]

No, because M has been humiliated by The Nick, and Hanni and a few others are in Defcon-5 mode. Now, that all changes with a win on Saturday. Then the Genius of Hokattison ascends. And I'm not sure how many more losses M has left with the shitfest of the B10.

Fair enough...If there is a year when we should win, this is it. But then I thought that last year. They simply have our number right now. On paper, I understand why ND is favored. At the same time there isn't a kid in Michigan's locker room who doesn't feel like they can win regardless, and they have no reason not to feel that way. After the gaggle-fuck meltdown last year, as confident as our guys may be, there simply has to be some doubt in the back of their mind. Otherwise, I'm not commenting on this game any further.

Notre Dame is now "back" -- or so some think. A win over M would surely crank up the hype machine to intolerable levels. Now, I still think ND has 2-3 losses, at least, on their schedule, so things would correct back to the norm, or at least what has been the norm for the past 15 years.

We've been "back" a couple times now. Return to Glory...Wake up the Echos...etc. I'll only say that if you're hearing that mantra from ND fans, it's from the bandwagon types that don't really pay attention or buy in until it's convenient.

Don't know if you watched the State game, but something that really sticks out to me was the reaction of ND fans on the boards in the 4th qtr. With over six minutes left, up by two scores, both Musburger and Herbstreit started talking as if the game was won and how great it was for ND. The ND boards, which had been fairly pedestrian with nervous hope, exploded in an X-rated hail of kicking and screaming and son-of-a-bitching. Everybody...including myself, were convinced that the announcers had just jinxed us and it was now just a foregone conclusion that we would lose in spectacular fashion.

Obviously I can't be truly objective here, but I can't think of alot of other fan bases that have had their hearts ripped out and stomped on in more cruelly creative ways than we have over the last decade. Willingham's first season...Weis' first season...three straight last minute losses to Michigan, with last year literally being a physically & mentally traumatic event. Little giants at MSU two years ago. Choke against Tulsa...meltdown against Florida St. in the bowl game six months ago...etc.

I can tell you with the utmost certainty that the "Notre Dame is Back" mantra is not the general feeling of ND nation, nor among the fans I know. If there is a difference, it's that success to date is based on good defense for the first time in forever and generally tough play on the LOS on both sides of the ball...as opposed to winning completely on the arm of Quinn or Clausen to Tate or Floyd.

In other words, we are cautiously optimistic (but not convinced), because we are seeing the things that are essential to the long-term health and stability of a program. Not the things that proved to be smoke & mirrors in the last ten years. Also, Kelly is doing a pretty good job with recruiting. Pulling in some big names, but most importantly pulling in real defensive talent. Weis had some top five classes, but they were almost exclusively based on offensive talent.

As far as losses, I agree that we'll have at least two. I'm picking Stanford as a loss as well as at Oklahoma. Though I don't think we'll get blown out by either. Also, I know you won't agree with this, but I'm nervous about BYU. Not that they are a great team, but their decent enough and they will come at us with some sentiment about the independent Mormon school vs the independent Catholic school "title" and play their asses off accordingly. I see that as a trap game.

Yes, yes you did.

Heh...you're right. Of course that's what I said.

[Clashmore Mike]

ND needed placeput and humiliated in the worst kind of way in 2006. I thought OSU's demolition job in the 2005 Fiesta would have been good enough, but it didn't take.

If I wasn't clear before...allow me to be very clear now. Talent has yet again set and achieved a platinum standard for excellence in achieving excellent excellence in his ability to hide bait in otherwise appropriate commentary.

[iam416]

My accomplishments in the field of achieving excellent excellence are world renown.

I wouldn't call it "bait", though -- that suggests some sort of intent to discuss, debate or otherwise engage re the "bait". There's nothing really to debate about OSU-ND or the 2006 M-ND game. It's just a gratuitous dig -- the ancient art of sass. I need a catchy phrase for it -- sass gratis or nesting doll sass....I dunno...

....the larger point is that the Jabba was in dire need of placeputtery after the great Bush Push victory, and OSU and M provided it in the space of several games. Heh.

[Clashmore Mike]

I found this interesting. ND student's have pooled together and will be wearing lei's (sp?) in honor of Manti Te'o and to show solidarity with him after his horrendous loss a week ago today.

http://collegespun.com/big-east/notre-dame/notre-dame-stadium-to-wear-leis-show-support-for-manti-teo

This is the flip-side. When people (correctly) talk about the disadvantages that ND faces when trying to recruit (small campus, Catholic rules in the dorms, non-party atmosphere in South Bend, etc.), they often overlook the advantages that ND has over the larger party schools with legions of hot co-eds and lax social culture.

A smaller, but completely in-tune and committed on-campus student body that recognizes and supports their fellow students.

Every campus passes out free pom-poms and towels (with "XXXXXX.com" on the back) to promote a home-field advantage. But there are few schools whose student body takes it upon themselves to pick a player and show out for him based on personal tragedy.

I hope the students save enough for the visiting recruits to wear during the game.

[Clashmore Mike]

Heh…but of course! I guess I need to do a better job of distinguishing between “just a gratuitous dig -- the ancient art of sass” and “bait”. Don’t know how I could have misinterpreted that from an opposing fan on a college football message board.

....the larger point is that the Jabba was in dire need of placeputtery after the great Bush Push victory, and OSU and M provided it in the space of several games. Heh.

I don’t suppose you ever considered the possibility that the placeputtery “didn’t take” because OSU ’05 didn’t come close to achieving the “demolition” that UM ’06 did?

You and I have done this a couple times now. No doubt OSU was the superior team…yet no matter how you cut it, it was a still a game with two minutes remaining in the 4th. I’m not going to do the research all over again, but as I remember it, OSU had four TDs on big plays of 40 yards or more. At the same time, OSU had five trips to the red-zone and walked away with a total of three points. In other words, ND didn’t have the elite speed or players to hang with Ohio State on a one-on-one basis, but otherwise played well enough that they were in the game and there wasn’t any shame in the overall performance.

Given that it was Weis’ first season, and given the “Bush-Push” game…this is exactly what I was speaking to in my previous about ND fans having their hearts stomped in spectacularly cruel fashion. At the end of ’05, we hadn’t beaten an elite team…but we had shown that we could at least hang. There was reason for optimism that with some improvement, we would be “back”. The 2006 season was a bitch-slap because that was where it became evident that not only didn’t we progress to the point that we could compete with the elite…the elite were blowing us off the field. Whereas we had taken USC down to the wire in '05...they demolished us in '06. The '06 BCS bowl against LSU was a complete ass-kicking from start to finish.

The polls and pre-season ranking from '05 to '06 confirm the above...

[iam416]

I think the OSU-ND game really highlighted ND's defensive deficiencies (no matter how you cut it, 650+ yards allowed isn't good) and started to chip away at the Weis is a Genius/Brady is Unstoppable sort of aura that was building. After the 2006 PSU game, though, it was probably as strong as it ever was. Until the M game. Whatever remnants of that thought were left after that were obliterated by LSU. At least that's my subjective take.

You're right, it was a 1 score game at the end of the game, but ND had to stop OSU. Smith made a play on 3rd down and Pittman scored. I don't think ND ever had the ball in the 2nd half with a chance to tie. Anyway. Oh, I also think the 4 TDs were 50+ yards!

[Clashmore Mike]

I think the OSU-ND game really highlighted ND's defensive deficiencies (no matter how you cut it, 650+ yards allowed isn't good) and started to chip away at the Weis is a Genius/Brady is Unstoppable sort of aura that was building.

You're right, it was a 1 score game at the end of the game, but ND had to stop OSU. Smith made a play on 3rd down and Pittman scored. I don't think ND ever had the ball in the 2nd half with a chance to tie. Anyway. Oh, I think also think the 4 TDs were 50+ yards.

Fair enough. Again, I don't think anyone who saw that game came away thinking the teams were evenly matched enough that it woulda/coulda/shoulda been close at the end. There was general agreement across the board on ND forums that OSU was clearly the better team, but we were nonetheless pleased that the game "looked" competitive in the first half and then that we were able to "hang-in" for pride purposes in the second half.

Love sparring with you on an amicable basis and hope that (specifics of the '05 Fiesta bowl aside) you understand my point about ND fans being crushed from the '05 season to the '06 season based on what we saw vs elite teams.

[iam416]

Understand and that would have been my assumption. It would have been tough to come away from the M, SC, LSU games feeling any other way.

I guess you're probably right -- it was such a rude, painful awakening and still relatively recent that most ND fans would be, at best, cautiously optimistic.

[Clashmore Mike]

I guess you're probably right -- it was such a rude, painful awakening and still relatively recent that most ND fans would be, at best, cautiously optimistic.

Now that is truly platinum material...

Unfortunately, the media will dramatize the hype beyond what most rational ND fans would...

[Clashmore Mike]

Some thoughts on the game…

First and foremost, karma is a bitch. A lot of woulda/coulda/shoulda conjecture following a slew of turn turnovers like that…trust me, I know.
There is a serious reckoning Notre Dame needs to face up to, and that is we aren’t “back” and we won’t be back until we can run the ball with any semblance of consistency. That is not to take anything away from the performance of Michigan’s defense, which I thought played excellent…but at the same time, it’s time to simply recognize that our O-Line isn’t what we thought, much less hoped.


Our OL and running game looked like an old-school Holtz unit against Navy. A month later, it’s becoming clear that Navy’s program is on the decline and nothing like they’ve been for the last decade. Against Purdue, they couldn’t either open holes or offer decent QB protection, and we excused it by theorizing that Purdue’s front seven is under-rated (which I still think may be true in some capacity) and that we were still adjusting from a road game in Europe…so we gave them a pass. They provided decent protection, but again didn’t produce ground yards against Michigan State and we told ourselves that we were on the road against one of the top defenses in the nation…so we gave them a pass.


Saturday was the third straight game where we couldn’t run the ball with any consistency. This is a line with a cumulative of 80+ starts, four of them are returning starters, two of them three-year starters. They were at home facing a patched together, hodge-podge defensive front that represents two coaching staff’s and either poor recruiting or development. If we couldn’t run the ball against Michigan at home on Saturday…when are we ever going to? You can’t throw a red-shirt freshman up against a schedule like this without some help from the ground game and hope to be successful.

On the flip-side…our defense is legitimately good. There was a lot made of the magnitude of the loss of Aaron Lynch’s transfer…and undoubtedly he was the biggest of the young stars that Kelly had brought in. But whereas in the minds of media and opposing fans, his loss meant that we wouldn’t have any talent on the DL…I think it is now becoming clear to all that his loss meant that ND’s defensive front would not be elite/SEC caliber this season…can you imagine this defense with that guy running loose?


Also, after four games, I’m really starting to like our secondary. I’ve always believed that CB was one of those positions where a legit freshman talent could come in and contribute right away…and they have. It may not be a strength, but they are developing quickly and I no longer consider them a liability…they’re only going to get better. Hopefully quickly as we will be facing some much better passing teams than we have to date.


Anyway, I’m very happy to be 4-0…and to have exorcised a number of demons (losing streak against UM, inconsistency against MSU and losing in Sept. as a general rule). Though there are many things I don’t like about Kelly as a game day coach, I think he’s come a long way, and is building the program the right way. We were all nervous that he would come in and try to install a Big East style, fast-paced/gimmicky spread offense and ignore the defense. He hasn’t done that at all. His focus on defense is clearly evident and successful. Though he hasn’t put a tough-nosed offense on the field yet, he does seem to be trying and has certainly recruited towards it. We’ll see…it should be clear what needs to be addressed during the bye week...perhaps we’ll see some improvement.