Detroit Red Wings & the NHL

[WingsFan]

Rocky, Not sure if you seen this one. There is another good documentary called 'The Return'

[WingsFan]

If you didn't see it yet, this is a much watch for Red Wing fans.


Months after being available on video on demand, "The Russian Five" documentary will gets its national TV premiere on Wednesday night.
NBC Sports acquired the movie and will premiere it on Wednesday, Nov. 6 after the Red Wings' game against the New York Rangers on NBC Sports Network.

[Hannibal]

I'll definitely have to catch that.

It will probably be more watchable than the game. They suck as bad as ever this year. It's Mantha, young Bert, Larkin, and then a bunch of crap.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Thanks for that WingsFan. If you're interested in putting the film that Bleier will do into perspective, watch the Ken Burns documentary he did on the Vietnam War. It's very well done, balanced and cuts to the chase on some of thornier issues of that war.

I was there from December, 1972 through the cessation of hostilities in March of '73 ..... but I flew over the crap-fest going on below and didn't have to deal with the horrors that soldiers on the ground did. Nonetheless, I had strong opinions about the war - most against it - but I was a very apolitical young First Lieutenant of Marines who kept his mouth shut and did his job, a lot like the majority who fought the North Vietnamese in that war.

I toured Saigon (Ho-Chi Min City) and some of the country side including near the airbase where I flew A6s from in Da Nang. Two interesting things: I had a young guide in his 20s whose entire family were South Vietnamese Christians and probably RVN government employees during the fall of the South. He didn't talk about it but Vietnamese Christians were horribly brutalized by the North Vietnamese Communists after they seized control of the South and the RVN collapsed. He was very anti-communist but only spoke in guarded tones with me about that - there are "listeners" everywhere.

Second, I spent a good 3 hours in the Vietnam War Museum in Ho-Chi-Min City. Only the communist interests were served and the glorious victory of the NVA over the invaders from America was celebrated while American "war crimes" were vilified. It was sobering to see that take, a good deal of it highly propagandized from my Americo-Centric viewpoint . But what was the most sobering was the terrible violence that innocents suffered from both sides in the later years of the conflict (68-73). And it goes without saying that American soldiers suffered the grotesque nature of warfare fighting a war that could have been won in the short-term, but like the French who fought the Communists from '46-'54 until their defeat at Dien Bien Phu, they learned that the Communist Vietnamese armed forces were committed, extremely well led and organized and fought for a government who, at first and later idealized, were all about social reform from the French colonialism that took advantage of the people and resources of Vietnam.

Lots of interesting history in that part of the world leading up to the fall of South Vietnam and the immediate years after it that the Communists, not unpredictably, dealt with massive failures attendant to that form of governance and centralized economic management. Lots has changed since literally millions of Vietnamese fled the country during the massive failure of the Communist regime in the north to switch from what had been a thriving entrepreneurial South Vietnam - if not corrupt - to a centrally controlled economy and means of production. The Commies did their homework, though, and today Vietnam is doing pretty well especially in light of the trade war between the US and China. I've read that Vietnamese are the greatest economic and standard of living beneficiaries of that situation. Good on them. The limited number of Vietnamese I have met both here and abroad are exceedingly good people.

[drok]

Thanks for all of that Jeff. I always really find it interesting to hear from people who have been through these times in history. Those of us who haven't experienced events like this often wonder what it was like and I always appreciate you sharing your perspective on it.

[Hannibal]

I have always wondered why South Vietnam was never able to coalesce around anti-Communism and why the people of Vietnam were so unwilling to fight to retain a modicum of freedom instead of living under the jack boot of Communism. After suffering under the horrors of the Hanoi regime in the late 1970s, I wonder how many Vietnamese realized far too late that they should have done more to keep their country free. We would have been delighted to just send them rifles and helicopters and never have had to send them a single soldier.

[iam416]

It's all relative, man. Communism can't beat western ideals, but it can beat jackbooted autocracies of a different ilk. Throw in a bit of "self-determination"/throw out the foreign powers and it's not hard to figure out.

[Hannibal]

Yeah I guess. I mean, I can sympathize very heavily with the "throw out the foreign powers" aspect of it. But that's more of a propaganda victory than anything, I think.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The Republic of Vietnam grew from the period after the Viet Minh of Ho Chi fame kicked the French out of Vietnam and the partitioned state - one in the North under Ho and one in the South separated by the DMZ - took shape. Around that time Diem became the appointed Premier of the Republic in the South. His entire regime was incredibly corrupt and the political history of the various players in the South gets complicated after that.

The history of Ho Chi Minh's political career is really interesting and explains a good deal about why the South Vietnamese didn't more strongly oppose the North Vietnamese Communists. In short, Ho was a Leninist and a Marxist for all intent and purpose. His early politics were very much about social reform, government by the proletariat and the advancement of Socialism. The Vietnamese peopel then, and even if you ask them now, idolozed Ho.

However, he got co-opted by the brutality of the Russian form of Communism during the Stalin and Khrushchev eras. As Ho and his government in the North became more and more dependent on the Soviet Union for support, his moderate Socialism - very popular with most Vietnamese in the face of the corruption and abuse of power of the Diem regime - faded. It was actually his political contemporaries - hard line Communists - that early on ended up running the North and prosecuting the war against the US mainly at the direction of their Soviet and Chinese benefactors. Still, the face of the North was Ho Chi Minh and he was uniformly loved by all Vietnamese people.

...... and yeah, Communism with a few tweeks is hell of lot better than "jackbooted autocracies of a different ilk." In this case, though, it was the rampant corruption, cronyism and the apparent lack of accountability of South Vietnamese government officials to the Vietnamese Emperor, Bao Dai and a wealthy and powerful Vietnamese elite associated with him that allowed the North to come to power in the whole of Vietnam. The reality though is that government of the North was falsely cloaked in the politics of Ho Chi Minh's early days, that were long gone by the time the South collapsed. That royal elite still exists today BTW, are wildly rich and successful entrepreneurs but they all live in the US or Singapore...... and don't think the government of Vietnam in Hanoi doesn't keep a watchful eye on them either.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Ep 2 of the Ken Burns Vietnam series does a nice job of presenting Diem and his regime.

Diem and his even worse brother were horribly corrupt. Diem was a squat, rotund little man who strutted around in perfectly tailored white linen suits, barking orders. Lived in a palace. Everyone knew he stole taxpayer money like crazy. The complete contrast with Ho Chi Minh who gave the appearance of a hermit ascetic.

At some point South Vietnamese soldiers started asking themselves "Am I actually willing to die for this guy?". What exactly am I fighting to preserve here?

Towards the end Diem (who was a converted Catholic like most of the elites from French colonial days) began persecuting Buddhists. Pure arrogant stupidity.

[Hannibal]

The Red Wings are now last in the league with 17 points in 29 games and also a staggering goal differential of -53, which is almost 30 goals worse than the next to last team.

I'll be surprised of Blashill isn't let go at around the All Star break unless they just want him to play out the string as a formality. Ken Holland did leave the organization in bad shape, but Blashill is doing nothing with this bunch. Get that #1 draft pick, get a new coach, and target a three year rebuilding process to get back into the playoffs.

[Hannibal]

Now in last place by 13 points.

is the #1 guy this year supposed to be a huge difference maker ala Connor MacDavid or is he a Joe Murphy type?

[WingsFan]

Alexis Lafreniere is the best player, not near MacDavid, but that's a very high bar, him and Crosby set. I compare Lafreniere to Malkin skill and style wise potential . Still last place in the league only gets you 18.5 chance of landing him.

[Hannibal]

[Hannibal]

Gerard Gallant fired! Steve Yzerman will have two former teammates to choose from Blashit is toast at season's end.
@NYIslanders associate coach Lane Lambert would both be good candidates.

Blashill has lasted a lot longer than I thought he would for the team's performance. 4 straight years with no playoffs and now DFL in the league.