UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[Hannibal]

NIL plus transferr portal makes college football's setup worse than pro sports Every player every year is an unrestricted free agent. It's an absolutely terrible system.

[Mike]

It will be the Wild West for a couple years but eventually a workable framework will be put in place.

[froot loops]

The important thing to remember is the old system based on prohibiting players ability to make money on endorsements was total bullshit and it was thankfully thrown out by Beer Kavanaugh.

[Hannibal]

It will be the Wild West for a couple years but eventually a workable framework will be put in place.

I don’t know what makes you think this. If anything, it’s going to get way worse as programs develop networks to recruit guys who fly under the radar and then blow up at non power five programs. That part has barely started yet. If unproven players can get seven figures then imagine what a guy like Jerry Rice would get if he blew up at Mississippi Valley State. The only framework that will prevent this is reverting to the old transfer rules. There isn’t some magical solution that will naturally arise to fix this.

Most guys don’t give a shit where they get a degree from, and two million dollars trumps “relationship with the coach” any day. The dollar values are likely going to escalate in the coming years too. There’s enough money to match the pros. It will take a while for the machinery to develop but in a decade a Blake Corum type could be making more than $5 million per year. Right now there is still a shitload of big donor money going to facilities, coach’s salaries, etc.

[Hannibal]

The important thing to remember is the old system based on prohibiting players ability to make money on endorsements was total bullshit and it was thankfully thrown out by Beer Kavanaugh.

The real important thing to remember is that we already have one NFL and we don’t need an 18-21 year old free agent version. It’s a sad day when the Lions have more year-over year continuity than Michigan does.

And let’s not kid ourselves that these kids are making money off of “name, image, and likeness” either. They are professionals football players now. The idea that Blake Corum’s turkey money comes from signing autographs is hilarious.

[DaGeezer]

You've commented in EVERY recruiting idiscussion on the other general thread about the NIL bullshit from On3, provably false claims and unsubstantiated claims.And you've done so repeatedly even after clear reasons why you were wrong were posted. I will say, this thread, though, had the added benefit of enjoying university rankings that rate Florida above M and Missouri Sciene and Tech above Havard.

So, good times.

If it were only about a proposal to have universities pay players under some sort of salary cap proposal then we'd all be discussing it like rational adults. The issue, of course, which I assumed away and I don't think you really can (as AA pointed out) is Title IX.

No question I was wrong in posting the On3 stuff because I didn't understand how the NIL number was produced. Would you like to bet that Texas will "spend" more on recruits this year than Alabama? How about OSU v. ND or PSU?

And I agree completely that Title IX is a big problem (caused by governmental interference).

In the end, we were dealing with a hypothetical which resulted in you saying "The more 5* you sign, the harder it becomes to (be) competitive."

What is real is that the Portal is a net negative for college football. (Just today Alabama got Maryland's tight end, by outbidding OSU. and Wake's Sam Hartman is going to transfer to ND). This is not good.

[DaGeezer]

Geezer,

(1) Scholarship athletes get, you know, scholarships. So, how quickly they pay off their student loan - especially in the world of NIL and stipends - is silly. Also, the website, which deals in salary mailers and how quickly tuition bills are paid off is wildly flawed and downright silly in this convo and also leads to things like Mizzou Tech > Harvard

(2) A school-managed fund opens up a Pandora’s box of Title IX and you still have schools who will donate more, and then we have to consider that the best players would have to agree to sign away their big paydays which would, at minimum, require a Union and a CBA - which opens up another Pandora’s Box.

(3) This above socialism of having a fund that was equally doled out to all athletes (male and female) at all universities would not only be a hard sell to the big schools and top athletes, but it would also ultimately have to be managed by the NCAA which opens up yet another Pandora’s Box.

(4) This is the second time you have reminded me this is a Michigan forum. (A) Let me remind you, you sought this discourse out. (B) I generally stay on topic and will respond honestly. It may not be what you want to hear and I absolutely expect your viewpoint to be M centric, which is fine, just keep in mind if your point of view is silly, it runs the risk of being called just that and that’s a positive. The worst sports forums are echo chambers (I am a member of a couple of those and they are at best tedious and a waste of time).

So, what’s the answer? Honestly, closing (or greatly restricting) the Portal would be a great first step. It would cut down on poaching and over 1000 football players entering every year to shop for a better deal.

I agree with this.

[froot loops]

The real important thing to remember is that we already have one NFL and we don’t need an 18-21 year old free agent version. It’s a sad day when the Lions have more year-over year continuity than Michigan does.

And let’s not kid ourselves that these kids are making money off of “name, image, and likeness” either. They are professionals football players now. The idea that Blake Corum’s turkey money comes from signing autographs is hilarious.

If you want to make sure they go back to not making money off NIL revoke the anti-trust laws. Until then you are going to have to deal with it and that's an good thing. Prohibiting endorsements was always dumb. It was against the law.

College football is inferior to the NFL, if this makes it closer to the NFL, all the better.

[iam416]

No question I was wrong in posting the On3 stuff because I didn't understand how the NIL number was produced. Would you like to bet that Texas will "spend" more on recruits this year than Alabama? How about OSU v. ND or PSU?

And I agree completely that Title IX is a big problem (caused by governmental interference).

In the end, we were dealing with a hypothetical which resulted in you saying "The more 5* you sign, the harder it becomes to (be) competitive."

What is real is that the Portal is a net negative for college football. (Just today Alabama got Maryland's tight end, by outbidding OSU. and Wake's Sam Hartman is going to transfer to ND). This is not good.

To be crystal clear, what I said was that with a “salary cap” the more 5* kids you signed the harder it would be to sign another because you wouldn’t have money left — as opposed to a school that had just signed 1. Basic salary cap principles. I assume we’re all on the same page.

I made a fairly obvious statement that you’re not quoting nor accurately paraphrasing. You quoted it the first time, correctly.

[froot loops]

That's right, you look at the NFL rosters and you have 5-10 high salary players and the rest are making the vet minimum or they are on a rookie contract. The same sort of thing would apply to college if they found some way to have a cap type framework.

[iam416]

Well, right, except NIL can’t be unilaterally regulated so it’s like a luxury tax system/soft cap. And, again, title IX is huge issue.

[Hannibal]

There will never be effective regulation of the "NIL" market. And I put NIL in quotes because kids aren't getting paid for their name, image, and likeness. They are getting paid to play football. They are minor leaguers now. And unlike all of the professional sports, there are no rules in place to enforce some sort of parity, outside of the scholarship cap. There is no draft order, no salary cap, and no long term deals. No professional sport has ever been this much of a wild west. It's a massive change to a sport that has a huge following from people who specifically love that college football isn't the NFL

Most people would be careful about radically overhauling this much of a golden goose -- we're talking about a sport where mediocre teams have more than 80,000 people watching them play tomato cans on a regular basis. The Lions couldn't even get 80,000 in the Silverdome for a playoff game and even the one year Wayne Fontes went 12-4, they couldn't sell enough tickets to get the blackout lifted without the local TV affiliate buying up at least a few thousand tickets. And unlike college, you don't have to donate a shitload of money just to have access to season tickets. It speaks volumes about how much more passionate the following for college football is than the NFL. College football doesn't even have to regionalize coverage or impose TV blackouts to get people to watch or show up. It's definitely not because the athletes are better or because their skill level is higher than the NFL.

Michigan State is not known as a college football powerhouse and their stadium would rank in the upper quartile of the NFL. It might be worth looking at college football and seeing what makes it unique and special instead of just blowing it up and assuming that it's all going to work out somehow. But common sense, as they say, isn't.

Anywho, if you think that the Wild West is here, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Pay amounts are still relatively low and the biggest powerhouses in the sport have yet to fully leverage their advantages. But that's only a matter of time.

[froot loops]

There doesn't need to be effective regulation of the NIL market, the previous regulation was clearly illegal,.it should have never been there. It was wrong and the NCAA lawyers got thoroughly humiliated by Beer Kavanaugh. The arguments about amateur athletics were always bull shit. College football will go on and it will be fine.

LOL at the example of Wayne Fontes, like it has anything to do with anything. That was 30 fucking years ago.

[froot loops]

Food for thought

[AlabamAlum]

I fully expected all of you to solve these issues by now. I want you to work day and night until we have a workable solution. Talent, you’ll lead Team Alpha with Mike, Geezer, and Jeff. Hanni, you’ll have Team Bravo with Froot, Wiz, and Cody Russell.

I want to be debriefed at 0800 (read that Oh-Eight Hundred, for dramatic effect).

Chop, chop, and be safe out there, people.

(Queue “The Wire” theme music).