UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[Cody_Russell]

No, because then your total numbers are 70 and 47. M's number is right just osu is wonky

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but do Ohio St and M magically not have any commits that were ranked between 301 and unranked?

Luke Shoonmaker, #765, doesn’t exist if so (as one example).

[KidD]

but do Ohio St and M magically not have any commits that were ranked between 301 and unranked?

Luke Shoonmaker, #765, doesn?t exist if so (as one example).

Never heard of him, doesn't exist Lol. For real though, I thought about it as top 300 and below that unranked. Need more coffee

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[Jeff Buchanan]

yHarbaugh said two interesting things in his presser this morning ...... paraphrasing:

When asked what he likes best about the 2018 recruiting class he replied that the players in this class don't think they are in it to do us a favor. They understand that M is both a football powerhouse and an academic power house. Not here to improve their eligibility. They want a good degree and they are going to get it.

This is fine and all that. But bringing in projects, what JH thinks are athletes with potential, guys he can coach up, your simply admitting you can't recruit top 100 guys consistently. That's what I think we are seeing and that's probably why M is unlikely to compete with programs that don't give a shit about anything else but winning and will do what is neccesary to do that.

To me Harbaugh's comments about recruiting belies has statements about competing for championships. M isn't going to do that with the clear lack of impact players he is recruiting.

[Hannibal]

Harbaugh had two great classes, but this year his lack of championships or signature wins and his clown antics have finally caught up with him.

[Rocky Bleier]

What are these clown antics you speak of, and what proof do you have that this year's 12th overall recruiting class is negatively affected by them?

[hack]

Gary was only consensus #1 recruit in the three-services'-rankings era, or, depending on what you read, the third HS player to achieve that designation. He's on the roster right now, so I don't know what what Jeff is saying holds up.

No doubt about it that this year's recruiting class is underwhelming for its lack of a splashy five-star. Petit-Frere is a five-star and could still end up here, but he's not a Peppers/Gary kind of excitement.

I think this is a good time to just chill out on this stuff and see what happens. We've been too fast>wrong before, plenty of times. After Ole Miss bought Treadwell away from Hoke everyone said he couldn't close on truly elite recruits, and, despite everything else going wrong under him, that was one area where the fears were misplaced.

[froot loops]

You guys can certainly compete but you aren't there yet. There isn't a quick fix. If your talent evaluation is good the three star players can start right away. They don't always have to be projects.

[Rocky Bleier]

I don't really think it's horrible to have an occasional class like this one. OSU recruits 4 & 5 star players every year, and the downside is high turnover. Kids don't stay there long, and some years their teams are talented but very inexperienced. The 3-star types presumably will redshirt (i.e. stay longer) and work harder. They don't feel entitled, and their attitude and work ethic are good for team morale. Michigan's 2019 class currently has four players - Three 4-stars and one 5-star. So this year may just be an anomaly.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hack, this isn't about not being able to close on Top 100 guys. It's about the view I hold that Harbaugh doesn't care if he gets these types or not.

What he wants are guys who want to play for M, take advantage of the educational opportunities provided with a football scholarship and aren't auditioning for the NFL or think they are doing M a favor by signing.

The minute he senses that a top player M might be in on is not the type of player I described above, he bails on them. It is what it is. I don't think his antics negatively affect his ability to recruit. That stuff can be used against him and M but I also don't think he gives a shit about that either.

Harbaugh is taking the program where he thinks it needs to be by recruiting the type kids he believes will take it there. I'm also convinced he rather blindly thinks he can win championships by doing that. He might but the odds are against him doing that.

Don't know if you noticed but he made another statement in his presser today about the NFL and how if you look at the rosters of NFL teams you'll see a lot of players that have successful careers that weren't highly rated or sought after by college programs. Sure, that's another way of looking at it and it isn't fundamentally wrong. However, it ignores the relationship between * ratings and matriculation to the NFL to begin with.

I just don't think M can beat the best teams that are recruiting at very high levels and can put very good players on the field that are college ready early, become NFL ready quickly and play at the kind of high skill level that makes them impact players. Those guys win games. The kinds of HS guys Harbaugh recruits and signs generally aren't like that.

[Rocky Bleier]

What he wants are guys who want to play for M, take advantage of the educational opportunities provided with a football scholarship and aren't auditioning for the NFL or think they are doing M a favor by signing. The minute he senses that a top player M might be in on is not the type of player I described above, he bails on them.

Could be the truth, but what else would you expect him to say on a day when so many are criticizing his 3-star laden class? He's not gong to say that he wanted the most talented players available but wasn't able to sign them.

[Jeff Buchanan]

There's the usual mindless excuses and sycophantic HARBAUGH!!! posts for M's 2018's class. But, the narrative has changed .......

You can go there and read that shit but it's sort-of a waste of time. Look, I think we are seeing the reality of M football under Jim Harbaugh. If you buy into the argument that it takes a talent recruiting machine to sustain winning championships, you're not going to like M football and will forever be complaining about M recruiting.

We really don't know if Harbaugh can win championships with what I believe his view of building winning football teams is. That is a core of committed team players who defeat teams that, on paper, are more talented. I also think JH depends on great QB play to win. The system he is running - and that is not going to fundamentally change - absolutely requires it. He also believes great QB play is developed it doesn't just happen. As proof of that I present Brandon Peters, called into action before, it appeared, the staff thought he was developed sufficiently.

While Harbaugh is now embarking on his 4th season at M, QB play has been dismal - Jake Ruddock being the best of the 4 QBs that have had sufficient playing time to assess them as being generally underwhelming players at that position. We should probably, therefore, understand the record Harbaugh has produced in his first three seasons.

Not saying that THE REASON M has yet to win a BIG Division championship or appear in the CCG is poor QB play but it may be one of the reasons. I'm also not saying that having a core of good, well developed players playing behind excellent, well developed QB play is going to put M in the CCG and the CFP either. Remains to be seen but, both Dantonio with Kirk Cousins and ufm with just two QBs in his time at osu is a good example of the importance of QB play and is one of the reasons Harbaugh is 1-5 v. MSU and osu.

[Mainevent]

You can build a good solid program without raking in 5 and 4 stars left and right. The program Harbaugh/Shaw built at Stanford is a good example, so is Wisconsin to a certain extent. But if they want to compete year in and year out with the likes of Ohio, Alabama, Clemson, etc., they need to bring in a higher quality of athlete more often.

[hack]

Jeff it's beyond me why you'd base your expectations for the program on a few sentences at a press conference. Aubrey Solomon's recruitment mocks your theory about guys that aren't necessarily all in on Michigan -- he was shitting on the program on twitter but Harbaugh kept his eyes on the prize and reeled in a five-star. He's chased top-ten recruits every year. He's just gone after two Ole Miss kids whose GPA he probably knew about long before they failed to qualify.

I think there is absolutely no evidence that Harbaugh thinks he can win at the elite level without scaling up recruiting to the war-machine level the others are at. I think there IS plenty of evidence that he'll never get there, because he doesn't have the tools some of those others have, and knew it going in. Michigan won't ever recruit on par with OSU or Alabama. But it can get pretty close, and as Michigan fans we have to be happy with that and trust that the ball will bounce our way enough times to pick up a ring or two while he's here and to battle OSU to a draw.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Fair enough, Hack. We'll see how things work out.

The one place we agree is the notion that fans have to be happy with pretty close. That's a tough one.

[froot loops]

It took awhile for Clemson to be Clemson. As for Alabama, you will be always be disappointed if your expectations are to match them. you can win a big ten title with this type of class.