UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[iam416]

2. If you are arguing MSU needs to win to recruit well. Well no crap, water is wet. We have about 5 fans and have to go back half a century for the good old days. All the programs listed by talent sans Penn State have won enough in the last decade.

I think MSU will finish behind PSU and M in recruiting this year. Neither of those programs has come close to winning as much as MSU recently.

So, does that mean JH is a terrible recruiter or does it mean M's supposed elite status has been badly damaged over the last decade. Maybe something else?

(1) I think USC is easier to recruit at than M because of (a) proximity to talent and (b) a better current brand.

(2) As I noted, first year classes lack long-term relationships which put those coaches at a natural disadvantage.

(3) As I've also mentioned, I'm not sure JH is a great recruiter. That's the one part of his "game" that I'm not completely sold on. I think finishing in the top 3 in the B10 and top 15 nationally is a solid start, but I'm not sold that he'll get up to top 5 nationally. We'll see.

Here's another way to think of brand. Mark Dantonio's first full class at MSU was ranked 9th in the B10 and 44th nationally. His second class he was able to get up to 4th and 26th. Coach Hoke and Coach Harbaugh will both greatly exceed those numbers.

Finally, 247 has finally introduced a "Team Talent" composite that tracks the rating of recruits on your current roster: http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Foo...alentComposite

It's an awesome tool. What it shows regarding M is that the current roster, despite years of total suckassery, is a clear #2 in terms of recruiting talent in the B10. Penn State, despite crippling sanctions, is #3. MSU is a close 4th. So, in terms of recruiting, M has still managed to outpace everyone the B10 other than Ohio State, though they've underperformed, IMO, relative to their "eliteness."

Finally, when you look through the top 10, there aren't any real surprises. I think Florida at #12 and Oklahoma at #19 are the biggest surprises to me.

But we've talked about this at length - M's problems over the past 4-5 years have been in developing talent. And JH isn't going to magically erase 3 years of developmental ineptitude in 6 months

[Da Geezer]

Thanks for the link Talent, and I agree with everything you have said in the last couple of pages. (you may want to bookmark that comment)

What we are talking about is the definition of "elite". Michigan is elite. Why else would Nike pick UM for the Jordan brand in b-ball? I explained to a befuddled German exchange student the other day that in the US, most of us pick the tribe that we want to associate with, and we live and die with that tribe (college). Many citizens of the US have chosen to pick UM as their tribe even though UM has been unsuccessful in football, and moderately successful in basketball. Whether it be history, academic ranking, family tradition, colors, fight song, former players, coaches, or whatever, Americans make their choices by buying merchandise with the UM brand. To me, the best indicator of what folks think of a college, and of how badly they want to be part of that tribe, is whether they will spend $ 20.00 for a T-shirt. UM has been in the top 3 of that metric most of my life.

I gotta tell an "old guy" story here. In the early 2000's UM played Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl. I was going to be in Orlando anyway, so I invited another family, the hosts of a Norwegian exchange student named Hanna, to come along. We got last minute tickets in the end zone. Hanna was on the Norwegian pre-olympic team as a distance runner, and is now an international lawyer, not easily intimidated. But UM fans were mixed that day with UA fans in about the same numbers. Everyone was screaming in each others ear ( the UA "SOOOOOOOIeeeeee, hog, sooie") being particularly loud, and Hanna was nervous as a whore in church. UA scored the first touchdown, and UM fans bought a beer for the UA fans. UM scored, and they reciprocated. It was 10-7 at the half. The game ended 45-31 Michigan, and we were all holding onto multiple cups of beer. Since that time, I have rooted for Arkansas whenever I had a chance. I even have a sooie hog hat. Why, because I liked those folks, and their tribe. I believe that is what UM has on a national scale which includes academics. BTW, when Hanna left, she told be that the way that crowd acted that day was the quintessential American experience of her year in the States.

[Hannibal]

Dantonio's first class was actually about on par with what Harbaugh's class is now. And if you think Harbaugh inherited a bad situation, then you should take a look back at what Dantonio inherited. That first full class is usually the "it" class. It's when the excitement meter as at its highest. Most of the class is filled when the coach is undefeated. It's when the coach can make all of the promises and it's when most guys pull in their best class or at least one of their best. Charlie Weis's first class was Top 10 and Saban and Meyer both produced a Top 5 class in their first full cycle at their current stops. So did Butch Jones at Tennessee. Hoke's first class was excellent and so was Tressel's.

[UMStan White]

"But we've talked about this at length - M's problems over the past 4-5 years have been in developing talent. And JH isn't going to magically erase 3 years of developmental ineptitude in 6 months"

Bingo!

[WM Wolverine]

M needs momentum, 8+ wins. Hopefully a 9th in the bowl game.

[Mackenzie]

He'll wind up on the east coast where he can be close to mommy and daddy. According to Sam Webb, recruits who were on the UCLA visit with Clark said he had some "pretty pointed things" to say about Harbaugh while he was there. Don't need him nor his entitled attitude.

Don't know if this is old news and has already been posted but could end some of the Clark speculation (if true).

http://www.maizenbrew.com/2015/9/23/9385583/report-ucla-blocks-te-chris-clark-from-transferring-to-michigan

[froot loops]

File that under Jim Mora doing you a favor.

[Hannibal]

Damn. What a vindictive dickhole.

[Mike]

File that under Jim Mora doing you a favor.

I agree with what this guy said.

[lineygoblue]

I doubt that Harbaugh was interested in him anyway. Especially if Clark really said some of the things that he reportedly said about Michigan and Harbaugh.

[Pasadena Blue]

what did he say?

[jaadam4]

I know Harbaugh rubbed a lot of coaches the wrong way with his satellite camps but I don't understand why MSU and Ohio are on that list. Why would UCLA only target B10 schools?

[iam416]

UCLA has blocked a transfer to three schools with zero interest in his transfer.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Geezer, great post: http://www.detroitlionsforum.com/for...ostcount=11359

However, IRT recruiting, we're not talking about 18year olds seeking to become members of a tribe. You're talking about M alumni at one end of the spectrum who were immersed in the tribe culture at M during their time there and then decided to hang with that or, at the other end, mindless CFB fans who just need an identity. In this regard, your post is spot on ..... M is elite.

IRT recruiting, we're talking about 18 year old football guys looking for the best place to develop their talents so they can gain entre' to the NFL. IRT this, M, IMO, is not elite ...... now and in its simplest terms (WM's) M needs 9 wins (including a bowl win) to emerge from the pit it now finds itself in thanks to a decade of incompetence.

But, I liked your post and your old man story. Cool! I was also at that game. One of the best bowl games of that season as I recall. Maybe one of LC's best coached games as well.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Talent ...... points taken.

I'm still sticking to my view that for recruiting at a particular institution to be elite, the program has to win and do it consistently.

In every example you have provided IRT to the question of what factors, in the eyes of recruits, build elite recruiting classes and extend or build the reputation of an institution being elite, the coaches have produced teams that win and sustain that capacity to win.