UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[SeattleLionsFan]

So Hanni...thoughts on RoJo committing?

[WM Wolverine]

Ron Johnson SDE (4*, New Jersey) lessens the string from KK a great deal. Plus h certainly helps with his teammate Brad Hawkins WR, who (last I knew) couldn't make the visit but will visit in July. I'm high on Hawkins, not a game changer but a very good WR recruit.

[Da Geezer]

To clarify my comment on The Game being a de facto championship game, I should have used "elimination game". In my lifetime, there have been traditional elimination games. This was when the national championship was determined by the AP and the coaches. Texas-Okla, UM-ND, USC-ND, UNL-OU, USC-UCLA, UM-OSU,. I honestly do not believe OSU would have won an AP or coaches championship last year. Losing to VaTech would be too much to overcome. But Ohio was by far the best team in the playoff. Not even close.

I remember one year that USC was just the odds-on favorite to win the polls. They were getting every first place vote. They played an away game at ASU I believe (or AZ) and the three centers that they brought all got seriously injured. USC had like 6 fumbles, and lost. They never got a sniff of the national championship that year after that one loss. That is what makes the playoff so much better.

[iam416]

Elimination game is accurate.

I believe the ASU loss was in 1978? I thought they ended up sharing the title with Bama even though they beat them in the regular season.

[WM Wolverine]

The Game from '70 - '06 usually decided or at least impacted who won the B1G and who went to the Rose Bowl. That's an extremely long stretch and is why The Game is the best rivalry in all of CFB if not all of sports...

When UNL and OU were in the Big Eight, it was The Game's equal but Oklahoma decided it's rivalry with Texas was more bene$icial in the long run. Texas, Oklahoma doesn't have the history of Ohio-Michigan of deciding its conference title or who goes to a major bowl game...

USC-UCLA is underrated. From my perspective (since mid 80's) it seems to be one of the programs is usually elite while the other is merely good; they were more evenly matched in the 60's, 70's. Like M-Ohio their rivalry usually impacted who would win the conference and go to the Rose Bowl.

[iam416]

USC-UCLA, OU-Nebraska, Auburn-Alabama and OSU-Michigan. Those were all great games from my childhood. Loved them.

The Game from '70 - '06 usually decided or at least impacted who won the B1G and who went to the Rose Bowl.

Why not 1969? Heh. Or even 1968. Anyway, that's beyond dispute. It's also beyond dispute that M has only played for 1 national title in 65 years.

Re The Game, in the past 97 B10 seasons (the years where OSU and M were both members of the conference), at least one of OSU or M have won the B10 title 62 of those seasons. The only thing missing from the rivalry is boatloads of national titles. Woody lost the national title by losing to Plunket's Stanford squad and the UCLA team they assrailed in the regular season as well as a fantastic USC team that scored a TD and 2pt conversion in the final 2 minutes to beat him 18-17. He could have easily had another 2 or 3 titles to his name. And then there's 1973 when, arguably, the two best in the country were OSU and M. That year the tie put both teams out of national title contention and ND played Alabama in the Sugar for the national title and won. OSU throttled USC. John McKay, who had lost to ND earlier in the season in South Bend by 9, said the best team he had seen all season was OSU. But all of that amounts to zero national titles for Woody's 1969-75 teams -- 5 of which could have easily -- EASILY won it (the 1969 Game was for the national title for OSU -- the no repeat rule was in effect, so that was their final game of the year).

[Hannibal]

Bo's stubbornness probably cost him a national title. His infuriating overreliance on the running game and that bend but don't break defense cost him a game or two every year.

[Rocky Bleier]

Bo's stubbornness probably cost him a national title. His infuriating overreliance on the running game and that bend but don't break defense cost him a game or two every year.

He didn't recruit much outside of Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois either. I remember being so happy when Moeller developed an actual passing attack along with a wider recruiting reach. He had some loaded rosters that underachieved.

[hodgkal]

"It's also beyond dispute that M has only played for 1 national title in 65 years."

I assume you're referring to the 1997 team and victor in the Jan. '98 Rose Bowl. (I was there) But recall that in 1946 UM demolished OSU 58-6, but no "national title" because we had lost twice in the early season. In 1947 UM was undefeated, as was ND, but ND was voted #1 at season's end and UM #2. However, after the bowl games another poll reversed this and named UM #1 and ND #2. This was Crisler's last year.

In 1948 UM was again undefeated (Benny''s first year) and this time there was consensus that UM was #1, although IMO our '47 team was better. I don't remember how these votes took place and it was wasn't very scientific, but the results were widely accepted.

Interestingly, Crisler's teams showed improvement over the years and Oosterbaan's teams did the opposite.

Anyway, my passions for UM go way back to those years. I got to many games via my Dad's M Club season tickets. (section 2)

[Hannibal]

He didn't recruit much outside of Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois either. I remember being so happy when Moeller developed an actual passing attack along with a wider recruiting reach. He had some loaded rosters that underachieved.

Yup. Moeller was great at recruiting, development, and scheming. He could do everything except get the players fired up consistently. They came out flat sooo many times. I never got it, as the guy personality-wise was the total opposite of Carr. Always fired up and yelling. But it seemed like every other week the other team wanted it more.

[iam416]

Doc:

I believe 65 years takes us back through the 1950 season. 1950-2014. I'm familiar with the informal 1947 "re-vote" as well as the 1948 national title. Notre Dame is still recognized as the AP Champion in 1947 (the only contemporaneous poll at the time).

In any event, 1946-48 were good years for M as were the early 30s and, of course, the Teddy Roosevelt administration years under Yost. The most recent 66 seasons have seen some very good teams, 1 national title and 1 played for and, obviously, a dispiriting downturn starting, almost to the day, with Bo's passing.

But, hope springs eternal and you have your boy. So, it's a new day.

[froot loops]

Harbaugh was the home run hire, but the expectations for him are sky high. Those expectations can be considered uncharted territory. I think when Talents posts 1st year coaches at new schools and their highly ranked classes, I think most of those coaches were also benefiting from the school they were taking over. If you are talking Meyer and Saban, they were taking over programs that had dominant stretches on the field and in the recruiting wars. You can convince yourself that Michigan has had that as well, but I think its just a little short of that. So its going to need a little more results.

[entropy]

froot.. those two you mentioned also went to programs that have a lot of local talent.

[froot loops]

That's also true.

[iam416]

Fruit:

This was the breakdown I did previously. Of particularly note, Coach F'n Hoke. Also of note, Tennessee. No local talent. Long run of mediocrity.

Nick Saban's first year: 7-6. Recruiting class: #3 nationally. 90.51 average. Julio Jones. Barrett Jones. Marcel Dareus. Mark Ingram. Dont'a Hightower. Terrence Cody. All the foregoing were at least 4* except Cody, who was a high 3*.

UFM's first year at Florida: 9-3. Recruiting class: #2 nationally. 90.12 average. Harvin, Tebow, Spikes, Hornsby, Riley Cooper, Brandon James (low 3*).

UFM's first year at OSU: 12-0. Recruiting class: #2 nationally. 89.78 average. You're familiar.

Jimbo Fisher's first year at FSU: 10-4. Recruiting class: #2 nationally. 90.41 average. Jernigan. Wilder, O'Leary, Kelvin Benjamin. Probably a lot more, but I'm not overly familiar with FSU.

Brady Hoke's first year at M: 11-2. Recruiting class: #6 nationally. 90.63 average. You're familiar.

Butch Jones' first year at Tennessee: 5-7. Recruiting class: #7 nationally. 89.51 average. TBD.

Steve Sarkisian's first year at USC: 9-4. Recruiting class: #2 nationally. 92.83 average. We'll see.

Charlie Strong's first year at Texas: 6-7. Recruiting class: #9 nationally. 89.46 average. We'll see.