UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[SeattleLionsFan]

Rumor is that Costello wanted to commit last year but Hoke told him no.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I think Harbaugh is looking first and foremost for hyper competitive kids. For the first time since Moeller we have a coach who lives and dies for winning. I don't think he will stand by if kids are not passionate about winning on the field and in life. But mainly on the field.

[lineygoblue]

I think Harbaugh is looking first and foremost for hyper competitive kids.

That, and also toughness. Schembechler was all about the smart and tough guys. Smart because they could learn the game, and tough because they wouldn't allow themselves to be pushed around. Harbaugh is cut from that same mold, and will recruit that kind of player.

[iam416]

Haskins ain't going to M and Peters isn't a "top" QB, though he'll verbal if he's given the opportunity.

Hoke landed a very highly rated QB -- certainly the rough equivalent of Costello.

I'm not sure why Hoke decided on Speight and there was no getting a "top" QB last season.

What I find amusing is the fairly consistent effort to distinguish nearly everything Harbaugh does from that done by Hoke. Such as, e.g., implying JH is recruiting different types of players or that Hoke was complacent when it came to QB.

NEWSFLASH: HOKE RECRUITED REALLY WELL!!!!

The problem wasn't with recruiting.

[SeattleLionsFan]

iam is generally correct in that Hoke recruited very very well. Way better than he should have honestly.

I do think that Harbaugh and Hoke value things a little different. The story with Hokes recruits was generally they were smart, mature, and good kids. not much about competitiveness.

And to me "toughness" is a bullshit attribute, like "grit." Tough kids are those that are so come petition that they would run through a wall to win.

[hack]

Whatever word you want to choose -- tough, competitive, gritty -- I think it exists. Hard to measure, but certainly it can be a trait emphasized and enhanced, and Harbaugh believes that.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Haskins ain't going to M and Peters isn't a "top" QB, though he'll verbal if he's given the opportunity.

I think we know that ..... but thank you for pointing it out.

What I find amusing is the fairly consistent effort to distinguish nearly everything Harbaugh does from that done by Hoke. Such as, e.g., implying JH is recruiting different types of players or that Hoke was complacent when it came to QB.

NEWSFLASH: HOKE RECRUITED REALLY WELL!!!!

The problem wasn't with recruiting.

Since this, it appears, is the main point of your post (it's amusing - read idiotic - to an osu fan that M fans think JH recruits differently - read better -than BH, I'll take issue with it.

Sure, we all know Hoke recruited well but his best recruits weren't QBs nor is it generally believed he needed anything other than a QB that was serviceable. Hoke was the kind of guy who was satisfied on playing a low risk offense and relying on defense. He didn't need a great QB, he just needed one that didn't make mistakes. .......70s and 80s stuff which had long been abandoned by any modern CFB coach with a brain. I offer the long list of M QBs after Denard that are or were not good as proof. And, yes, some of that had to do with development but not all of it. They weren't anywhere near as good as their star rankings (in Morris's case) and the rest of them were just awful gets because the guy getting them didn't have a clue about what makes a good QB.

So, from the early looks of things, there's a huge difference here between Harbaugh's and Hoke's approach from my perspective .... and right, I don't care about yours.... when its purpose is just to dump on us here.

Yes, it's early and for all we know Morris is going to get developed (I highly doubt it) and Speight and Malzone will turn out better than expected - and that is entirely possible given who's coaching them.

SLF has the right idea .......

........ I do think that Harbaugh and Hoke value things a little different. The story with Hokes recruits was generally they were smart, mature, and good kids. not much about competitiveness.

And to me "toughness" is a bullshit attribute, like "grit." Tough kids are those that are so come petition that they would run through a wall to win.

My take is that the difference between the two coaches is huge (stark as I put it my original post), (1) because Hoke didn't care that much about QBs and (2) Harbaugh cares a shit-ton about QBs and plays 21st century football.

[iam416]

Shane Morris was a 5* recruit. Period.

and right, I don't care about yours.... when its purpose is just to dump on us here

The suggestion that JH will recruit a different "kind" of player -- one with toughness and a burning competitive nature or whatever -- implicitly shits on the players you have.

I'm not shitting on your team or your coach, but rather defending the talent and players you have as a really solid base -- underdeveloped, but solid. If you want to suggest they're pussies that can't compete, feel free. I won't.

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah right, I'd like to talk to the "other Talent" now.

Morris is likely a bust and expect him to follow Hoke and Bellomy out the door after Harbaugh gets to see him up close after spring ball. Would prefer JH invest his time with his young QBs, like O'Korn as well , too bad he has to sit a year.

If Bellomy actually found his helmet, he had better have returned it to the equipment manager before the door smacked his ass on the way out of AA.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Cogent

[Jeff Buchanan]

Shane Morris was a 5* recruit. Period..

Well, sure, but he has played horribly when given the opportunity. Coaching? Sure. But something is missing there beyond technical skills and development. My bet is that better scouting would have revealed that.

The suggestion that JH will recruit a different "kind" of player -- one with toughness and a burning competitive nature or whatever -- implicitly shits on the players you have.

Not my position. My analysis of the differences between the two coaches has nothing to do with that. Harbaugh knows QBs. He'll show interest in a two star that he thinks has what it takes, whatever that is, and can be developed. Hoke had not a clue and apparently neither did any of his OCs. Harbaugh alos puts a shit-ton of emphasis on the QB in his approach to the game. Hoke didn't.

I'm not shitting on your team or your coach, but rather defending the talent and players you have as a really solid base -- underdeveloped, but solid. If you want to suggest they're pussies that can't compete, feel free. I won't.

That position is entirely defensible and honorable. But here's the thing. You want to succeed in high performance environments (the law, medicine, military flying), you better have (1) the confidence to do it well, (2) the tools to do it well and maybe most important, the willingness and the integrity to fairly stuff your competition by showing them you will work harder and in the process are way better than they are.

Welcome to the world of Jim Harbaugh football.

[hack]

I appreciate and agree with what you're saying, Jeff. Hoke was a good recruiter but also shit with QBs and probably did indeed fail to appreciate the importance. Letting DG convert to WR when there was no other credible backup to an injury-prone QB is an example.

[Kstat]

Hoke went his entire 4-year Michigan tenure using QBs that RichRod recruited....

[lineygoblue]

Yeah right, I'd like to talk to the "other Talent" now.

Morris is likely a bust and expect him to follow Hoke and Bellomy out the door after Harbaugh gets to see him up close after spring ball. Would prefer JH invest his time with his young QBs, like O'Korn as well , too bad he has to sit a year.

If Bellomy actually found his helmet, he had better have returned it to the equipment manager before the door smacked his ass on the way out of AA.

Just in time ... OP sets it all straight.

I think at one time Morris was a 4*, but due to his illness in his HS senior year he regressed to a solid 3*. He's never really regained his form since his illness. If anyone can find a way to develop him into a serviceable quarterback, it will be Jim Harbaugh. If Harbaugh gives up on him, he's toast, ... transfer bait.

I stand by my belief that both Malzone and Speight will have an impact on who becomes starting QB this fall. If Gentry were enrolling early, I'd toss him in the mix.

Long term, QB will not be a problem at Michigan. Short term, I think it all gets sorted out very well by the end of the season. There will be a solid starter entering the 2016 season.

And toughness is an important trait for a football player. Read John Bacon's book that he wrote with Schembechler to see what I'm talking about.

The kids that we have now may indeed have the toughness that I'm referring to, but its not being brought out of them. Too many times we see an OL getting shoved 2-3 yards backward into its own backfield, when they're supposed to be moving forward. And I absolutely hated the UConn game where an absolutely LOUSY football team pushed our guys from one end of their tiny field to the other. That was a lack of toughness.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hoke went his entire 4-year Michigan tenure using QBs that RichRod recruited....

.....

..... and why was that? It was not RR's fault. It was due to all the factors I listed above:

Hoke, it would appear, didn't put any emphasis on the QB position or more likely deferred scouting and recruiting to someone else on his staff. The results were predictable.

I'm also confident that I have correctly described Hoke's overall approach to the game. He didn't need great QBs and again the results of that approach are stunningly evident in his record.