UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[hack]

For just one example, it was apparently teammates who reported Lewan's statement to the police. That's a huge red flag to me.


OK, done. Yeah.

[Rocky Bleier]

Michigan hasn't recruited a single defensive lineman ranked as low as shiloque Calhoun.

I would have expected QWash to do something last year. Richard Ash. Brennan Beyer was a very highly regarded recruit. Jibreel black should have been at least serviceable as a DE.

Even Hoke has admitted the staff hasn't done a good job developing guys. Why is this still an argument?

Calhoun was obviously overlooked. He has great size and athleticism. I never expected much out of Black or Ash. Ash ate himself out of a job early. Beyer has been shifted betwwe LB and DE. He wasn't redshirted and has had to put on weight. Heitzman and Henry seem to get the most out of their talent. Hoke and Mattison know how to coach d-linemen. Hoke did pretty well with Renes, Williams, Hall, and Steele. If the kids didn't develop part of the blame goes on the kids. Hoke always takes the blame. That's what coaches do...

[Rocky Bleier]

For just one example, it was apparently teammates who reported Lewan's statement to the police. That's a huge red flag to me.

That's interesting...I never heard that...do you have a source? I did wonder at times how he was viewed by his teammates.

[The Oracle]

Frank Clark has as much athletic ability as any DE in awhile here. I wouldn't say production matches.

And there are numerous examples of making chicken salad out of "chicken shit". Watch a couple Saturdays of CFB and you see it all around the country. There is plenty of talent here.

[SeattleLionsFan]

That was in the washtenaw watchdog report but it's unclear from the police report who made the report.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Rocky, I wholeheartedly agree that the kids bear some culpability here. But it's the coaches job to get them to buy in and do what's necessary to be great. That's where the coaches have fallen down.

And as far as moving Beyer and overlooking Calhoun, who was it that made those decisions if not the coaches?

[Hannibal]

Tell me the name of the players from last year's d-line that you believe should have been great. Mattison's defense in year number one was greatly aided by the presence of Mike Martin. No one on last year's team came close to Mike Martin. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Beyer was a 4-star, Quinton Washington was a four star, fifth year senior, Jibreel Black was a senior with a recruiting profile that looks better than 75% of MSU's defense. Pee Wee Pipkins was a 5-star recruit. Mario Ojemudia was a high 3-star that MSU wanted, and he has done absolutely nothing at WDE, which has sucked horribly ever since Hokeattison arrived.

In 2012, we had Will Campbell (5-star) and Craig Roh (strong 4-star), and those guys did nothing but be invisible most of the time. Frank Clark has made almost no progress. He is still an "athlete" who has yet to make an impact at his position.

Good coaches get at least a few guys to overachieve. Since Mike Martin left, there is absolutely, positively not one single on our D-line that does anything remotely resembling that. Not one. Everyone is either an underacheiver or a "solid" guy who barely meets expectations. This is true of most of the defense, which is completely devoid of playmakers other than maybe Countess and Jake Ryan when he was healthy. Nobody has shown a hint of stardom or upside. Outside of two or three games that Mike Martin and Ryan van Bergen took over completely, Mattison's tenure at Michigan has been a bust, and only looks good because people are comparing it to his predecessor.

And Mattison has a track record of doing this. So you can't rule out his culpability but you can't just pin it on him. Possible that something else is wrong. But we'll know in a year. Mattison has a decent stable of four-star DLs to work with and he'll have a nice number of upperclassmen in the back seven. It should be a pretty good defense, though probably short of elite.

Fuck that. It had better be elite. Time for these fucking shmucks to start earning their pay. Outside of OSU, there is not a Big Ten program with more talented defensive recruits. Next year's defense will be absolutely loaded both with highly ranked recruits and with experience. Juniors, senior, and returning starters just about everywhere, with experienced backups coming in for graduating starters like Quinton Washington.

You know how Nick Stauskas looks completely different this year both physique-wise and on the court? How about we get one fucking guy on our football defense to do that. It's funny how everybody is shocked with a guy playing for Beilien gets bettter from one year to the next. Duh -- that is what is supposed to happen -- in any sport. We have been watching shitty coaches for so long though that we have forgotten about this. Guys who develop are shocking outliers when they should be the norm. Impress me for a change.

[WM Wolverine]

Elite? We're still relying too heavily on RR's recruits ('10) and David Brandon's 'process' that wrecked the '11 recruiting class, those guys should be the 'core' of the defense and they are a pretty meh bunch...

Talent here is only average, arguably good by lowly B10 standards... Only four senior starters, experience is average... It should be a good defense if the young but talented defensive line holds up....

I like the talent on offense but after Gardner, it's only has Funchess as a scholarship upperclassman... The rest are all sophomores, which bodes well for '15 - '16 but worries me for '14.

[jaadam4]

Are we seriously blaming dickrod still?

[WM Wolverine]

We still have his players on the roster for a couple more years

[Hannibal]

Talent here is only average, arguably good by lowly B10 standards... Only four senior starters, experience is average... It should be a good defense if the young but talented defensive line holds up....

Both talent and experience are way more than average, especially for the Big Ten. Five senior starters actually (Clark, Beyer, Morgan, Ryan, maybe Raymon Taylor), plus at least four more juniors on top of that (Pipkins, Wilson, Countess, and Ross). Pipkins is the only new starter of that bunch. Lots of experienced backups too like Ojemudia and Bolden, and lots of guys who got playing time as true froshes in 2013. The idea of level of experience being "average" is utterly laughable. That wouldn't even be average for the 1970s.

There is absolutely no excuse for next year's defense. Absolutely none. Time to put up or shut up.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Until Hoke and crew have 11 fifth year five stars on defense or offense you cannot expect them to compete for big ten titles. Duh.

[jaadam4]

Understood but our defense isn't showing anything. It's getting worse not better.

[Rocky Bleier]

Mattison has forgotten more than anyone on here will ever know about defense; therefore, judging from the comments here, I can only surmise that he has been taking stupid pills the last couple of years.

[WM Wolverine]

M can compete for a B10 title with what they have returning, I just don't see a top 10-to-12 team that'll play in a major bowl game this upcoming season; which is my barometer for success at Michigan...

Talent isn't that good quite yet, maybe they'll exceed my expectations... 9-3 is about what I expect with a Citrus/Holiday Bowl at seasons end, 10 wins wouldn't surprise me if both lines are better than I think they are, 8 wins would be a disappointment...

Both offensive and defensive lines were abysmal under RR and both mis-recruited and under recruited. These are also the positions that take the longest to develop in CFB; areas of the team that are still young and not at full strength. FWIW I do like the talent on both lines that Hoke has brought in, more so the offensive line than defensive line talent...

I didn't count Beyer as a starter, I think Wormley (rs-soph) is the starting SDE next season if talent wins out... Wormley I think had more stars at rivals yet I saw him as a much better talent coming out of high school, Beyer was one of those overrated 4-stars while Wormley was an underrated 3-star that deserved a 4th star if not a top 250 recruit.