UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[iam416]

The other thing with 3* players is that it covers a vast swath of the bell curve. There are 3* kids who are borderline 4s and 3* kids who are are borderline 2s, and the difference is huge.

Michigan State's recruiting has generally been higher 3*. Over the past 3-4 years their recruiting has trended from a 247 composite avg class rating of 85 up to 86 to 87 to 88.

[froot loops]

The ones flying under the radar are the ones generally not playing the recruiting game or are in an uncovered area. Jack Conklin was a no star player that should have been a 3 or 4 star based on his high school measurables. He played for Plainville, he was really good in high school, but for whatever reason he couldn't get noticed. And he didn't need much developing at all.

[iam416]

Yeah, but you can't sustain a program on Conklins.

Every program has 3* success stories. OSU just had one drafted in the first round -- a HS QB turned college LB. But if you're counting on a team of those players then you won't be elite.

[froot loops]

I never claimed you could.

[The Oracle]

Supposedly on commit watch when #92 overall WDE Luiji Vilain visits this weekend. A stud pure pass rusher has been the one thing missing(unless you count Gary for that, I don't) in recruiting the last few years. He'd fit the bill.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I never claimed you could.

I don't think talent is assailing your position, Froot. He's just stating an unassailable truth. You need talent (stars) to compete at the elite level. It's fantasy to think you can compete at a sustainable high level in today's CFB without talent and instead touting a schematic advantage, innovative or great coaching, pride, hard work, whatever ...... RR's teams and what he tried to do at M are great examples of this undeniable truth.

As an aside, I think Dantonio does better than any coach in CFB running a power offense with 3*, under the radar guys who are probably marginal 4* guys but just didn't get the exposure in HS. Conklin is a good example of that. He was absolutely key to MSU's success the last three years.

But that success isn't going to be sustainable with osu recruiting like they are and a resurgent M under Harbaugh. If things play out like most expect they will for M and osu, even though Dantonio is a really good coach, he's going to looking up from 3rd place in the Big Ten East just by getting out talented on the field. Not out coached, just great players making big plays when it counts.

As an example of that view, as good as M fans thought M and JH were going to be facing osu in AA in 2015, when urban got his really talented team (see NFL draft status of that team) fired up for The Game, the results were predictable as hard as M fans might have wanted to believe the out-come would be different.

Talent.

[WM Wolverine]

Great to hear about Vilian, he's one of both mine and the staffs favorites.

[froot loops]

I don't think talent is assailing your position, Froot. He's just stating an unassailable truth. You need talent (stars) to compete at the elite level. It's fantasy to think you can compete at a sustainable high level in today's CFB without talent and instead touting a schematic advantage, innovative or great coaching, pride, hard work, whatever ...... RR's teams and what he tried to do at M are great examples of this undeniable truth.

As an aside, I think Dantonio does better than any coach in CFB running a power offense with 3*, under the radar guys who are probably marginal 4* guys but just didn't get the exposure in HS. Conklin is a good example of that. He was absolutely key to MSU's success the last three years.

But that success isn't going to be sustainable with osu recruiting like they are and a resurgent M under Harbaugh. If things play out like most expect they will for M and osu, even though Dantonio is a really good coach, he's going to looking up from 3rd place in the Big Ten East just by getting out talented on the field. Not out coached, just great players making big plays when it counts.

As an example of that view, as good as M fans thought M and JH were going to be facing osu in AA in 2015, when urban got his really talented team (see NFL draft status of that team) fired up for The Game, the results were predictable as hard as M fans might have wanted to believe the out-come would be different.

Talent.

Yeah again we'll see, MSU has upped the recruiting as well.

[jaadam4]

Yeah again we'll see, MSU has upped the recruiting as well.

No they haven't

[Rocky Bleier]

Yes, they have - on paper anyway. Then again, MSU fans have been telling us for years that they don't want 4 & 5 star players. They want those hungry 3 stars who have something to prove. Michigan can have the lazy entitled high school phenoms.

[lineygoblue]

Well, they saw what those hungry 3 stars do when it comes to the big stage. Alabama, with its 4-5 star talent blew right past them like they weren't even there. So if MSU wants to get past teams like that, they'll have to match talent with them at some point.

Harbaugh has realized this already, and is moving forward with a plan.

[froot loops]

They definitely got a bare bottom spanking by the Tide and they have to improve the talent level to compete with that. But that wasn't their best team and they have improved the recruiting, recruiting isn't static, it has improved, contrary to Jad's assertion. But it is a slow methodical plod to get there,

I don't care to get into a Michigan State recruiting argument, I brought up Conklin as someone who was missed entirely by the recruiting services. . He is top of mind because he was a high draft pick and was completely missed by the recruiting services even though he was a fully formed player. I'm sure Michigan and OSU have those type of players as well.

[The Oracle]

Does anyone else subscribe to Rivals? Would anyone here care if I share a few "nuggets" taken from there? I normally don't like taking "premium" info and sharing it, but this is a pretty tight knit group here and the info probably wouldn't get that far. Mgoblog basically has a whole site based off that info, but I don't want to offend anyone either.

Would be nice to generate some more discussion and nothing is really that earth shattering.

[Hannibal]

Does anyone else subscribe to Rivals? Would anyone here care if I share a few "nuggets" taken from there? I normally don't like taking "premium" info and sharing it, but this is a pretty tight knit group here and the info probably wouldn't get that far. Mgoblog basically has a whole site based off that info, but I don't want to offend anyone either.

Would be nice to generate some more discussion and nothing is really that earth shattering.

I certainly don't have a problem with it.

[The Oracle]

From today:
-reiterated they could possibly be on commit watch with Vilain this weekend(#92 OVR, #8 WDE per 247 composite)

-David Long is moving to AA in June and shortly after Darnay Holmes(#8 OVR, #1 CB) will be visiting with his father and good friend Long will host. Way too early still, but good to get him on campus.

-M could get Antjuan Simmons(#277 OVR, #24OLB) if they want him. Staff will still sit and wait before pursuing heavily. They're not sure where they would play him.

-Some in the program think Nico Collins(#79 OVR, #11 WR) is a soft commit. Many think M leads. Georgia and Bama both think they lead as well. 3 team race. Dylan McCaffery has made him a priority.

-At least one of Plantation (Fla.) American Heritage's coaches will be coaching at a UM technique camp and will be bringing Tedarrell Slaton(#30 OVR, #1OG) and Kai-Leon Herbert(#219 OVR, #29 OT) with him. Same high school as '16 TE Nick Eubanks.