UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[lineygoblue]

Yeah, I think its good news. I think it would be a bad sign if he didn't include Michigan in at least one of his official visits.

[iam416]

I consider it expected news. It would have been a disaster if M didn't even get an OV. I always expect Gary to line up OVs with M and 4 southern schools. I guess he showed some very late interest in ND and USC, so maybe one of those two sneak in.

[hack]

Not getting an OV would be the official signal to worry about recruiting. Not getting Gary would suck, because we've put so much into it, but getting the OV is at least an escape from embarrassment and concern.

[Hannibal]

The official signal to worry about recruiting went off a long time ago. Not getting Gary would be par for the course for Michigan dating back about ten years, so he doesn't figure into it that strongly. A much bigger sign was the horror show on 2015 signing day, followed by the flood of RichRod caliber recruits from the camps and getting completely shut out of Ohio for what I think is probably the first time in my life.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Despite some noteworthy recruits during the Hoke regime, his tenure, during which he made it clear that if you have talent, NFL aspirations and go to M, you won't get developed and that choice is going to hurt your chances of getting to the NFL.

The 2015 class had something to do with that.

What brings talent to a class is a combination of the right connections to HS programs, great recruiting skills on the coaching staff and winning with the commensurate exposure that brings.

If that happens at M, all those pieces coming together under Harbaugh, that will change the recruiting landscape. Until then, it is what it is.

[iam416]

I still think you guys are overvaluing "winning." It matters for non-elite brands. Baylor and TCU need to win big to recruit against Texas and aTm. For that matter, Michigan State needs to win big to recruit really well.

IMO, if you're an "elite brand" then you have no excuse. And, FWIW, I think HARBAUGH!!! is recruiting to expectations (at least mine) given the absence of long-term relationship building opportunities. He'll have a top 15 class.

[froot loops]

Producing NFL draft picks is at least as valuable as winning. But Michigan does need some momentum from wins.

When Prime posted that Michigan tradition video that HARBAUGH! had made, it was awfully dated in highlights.

[hack]

We've gotta get some wins, yeah.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I still think you guys are overvaluing "winning." It matters for non-elite brands. Baylor and TCU need to win big to recruit against Texas and aTm. For that matter, Michigan State needs to win big to recruit really well.

IMO, if you're an "elite brand" then you have no excuse. And, FWIW, I think HARBAUGH!!! is recruiting to expectations (at least mine) given the absence of long-term relationship building opportunities. He'll have a top 15 class.

Michigan has not been an "elite brand" since sometime in the mid 2000s. From 10,000 feet I can see how outsiders would think that after LC left and even a little before that, there was nothing wrong with the brand.

I think you miss the now value of institutions such as what we refer to as the blue bloods, and M is among them, in the minds of the nations top 18 year old HS senior football players.

From a shopping standpoint, this is a savvy group of dudes . When the are potential impact players and they are that good, they have handlers or they have family actively engaged in getting them to the best spot ..... whether that means a bag-o-cash, the combination of education + good coaches and TV exposure that is likely to increase their chances of an NFL offer, or something else, they aren't thinking, gee, Yost (or any other historical M football figure) was amazing.

Frankly, I don't think they give a crap, well, at least if they do it is NOT at the top of their list, about the storied history of UA, USC, UCLA, ND, OU, Neb, Texas, Michigan, PSU ..... did I miss any?

The now version of the football program is what they are paying attention to, IMO. In that regard and until Harbaugh, M sucked ass and JH is still digging himself out of a deep hole created by some of the most destructive decades to a previously great football program I've ever seen. I'm sure there are ND and PSU alums along with those from USC ant UT who might take issue with that because they know their own programs better than those of them looking at them from 10K feet. But you get my point.

[jaadam4]

When Prime posted that Michigan tradition video that HARBAUGH! had made, it was awfully dated in highlights.

No shit froot. If you didn't already know Michigan made HORRIBLE coaching hires for the better part of a decade. Unless you want to see the Denard Robinson highlight reel there's not much else.

Its no secret the Wolverines DOMINATED little bother only until we did ourselves in with the dumbass hire of Matt Millen Jr. Had we hired Harbaugh back then MSU would still be the hick school that can't hold Michigans jock.

[froot loops]

No shit froot. If you didn't already know Michigan made HORRIBLE coaching hires for the better part of a decade. Unless you want to see the Denard Robinson highlight reel there's not much else.

Its no secret the Wolverines DOMINATED little bother only until we did ourselves in with the dumbass hire of Matt Millen Jr. Had we hired Harbaugh back then MSU would still be the hick school that can't hold Michigans jock.

Jad - I'm not trying to start a fight or a troll fest. Although obviously it is touching a nerve with you. My post was much in line with what Jeff Buchanan said. I do think you need some success to get some momentum to really start pulling in those top classes. I use that video as evidence because it really fires up guys like you and everyone in this forum. But none of you play high school football to my knowledge and haven't played football for a long time. None of those guys in those videos besides Woodson is relevant to today's high schoolers.

talent always talks about elite brands and not needing wins if you are an elite program. Inevitably he brings up Meyer, but Uncle Urban was 12-0 in his first year. That helps.

[iam416]

Buchanan:

I think it is waaaay easier to recruit at M than it is at Wisconsin. Both programs are located in states that cannot sustain a program with recruits. Michigan is a better state for HSFB, but then again, it has two B10 schools to support.

One program has been a consistent winner in the B10 over the past 10 years. One program hasn't won a B10 title in 11 seasons. One program is an elite brand and the other is not.

Put in macro terms, does M have the same recruiting ceiling as other P5 schools?

We've had this discussion numerous times and we just disagree. I really think "eliteness" matters in a meaningful way. I think the top of the B10 recruiting rankings doesn't correlate to "winning" nearly as much as it correlates to "eliteness." I mean, PSU and M are going to finish 2nd and 3rd in the B10 in recruiting barring a late Sparty push.

[iam416]

talent always talks about elite brands and not needing wins if you are an elite program. Inevitably he brings up Meyer, but Uncle Urban was 12-0 in his first year. That helps.

Penn State and Michigan are both likely to land higher rated classes than Michigan State. Make of that what you will.

Last year Michigan State finished behind programs such as Penn State, Oklahoma, Florida, Texas, and Notre Dame -- all programs that haven't come close to winning as much as Michigan State in the previous 4 years.

Last year USC had a killer class. They haven't really won since Petey departed.

[froot loops]

If you guys want to talk Michigan State, take it to the Michigan State thread. But two points on it and I will not talk about them in this thread.

1. Jad talks about Michigan owning MSU, but then excuses the last decade on bad hires. Hello! MSU was hiring bad coaches for 30 years with very brief respites of competence. Don't you think that had something to do it? The brand heavily depends on the coach. Always.

2. If you are arguing MSU needs to win to recruit well. Well no crap, water is wet. We have about 5 fans and have to go back half a century for the good old days. All the programs listed by talent sans Penn State have won enough in the last decade.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hmmmmm. you make a good point re USC and the rest.

Harbaugh's first class in 2015 wasn't exactly a "killer class."

So, does that mean JH is a terrible recruiter or does it mean M's supposed elite status has been badly damaged over the last decade. Maybe something else?

I'm tellin' ya ...... M's elite status as it relates to being a big draw for recruits is, IMO, in the shitter right now.

Yes, you and I disagree about this and it's tough to prove either way as no recruit is going to answer a poll question on this subject..