UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[WM Wolverine]

Dytarious Johnson LB was just evaluated by 247 and given a .870 rating (3*), M's highest ranked player after their four stars...

M needs to take steps at a time...

1. Become a bowl eligible team.
2. Beat Sparty
3. Compete for B10 title
4. Beat Ohio State
5. Win B10 title
6. Play in Rose Bowl
7. Compete, play in CFP
8. Win NT's

M needs to work on steps 1 & 2 before they are anywhere near #5, #6, #7 & #8.

[froot loops]

It will be interesting to see how he does recruiting in the long term. I'm not an expert on HARBAUGH! but some of the stories of his recruiting sound flaky, but some kids love flaky shit. His resume is indeed impressive, but he's kind of in the same boat a lot of coaches are when they have a lot of success at smaller programs. At this level you have to put it all together.

This is where a lot of coaches stumble, guys you may have recruited at earlier stops aren't going to cut it here. At least Stanford was big enough in a great conference where he has a sense of what it takes. But with Stanford, having a great season after a few 9-4 seasons is not what the Michigan faithful are looking for. But that might be what is needed before he starts rolling in the recruits. Like I said earlier, these kids don't know the Michigan yous guys know. Just rolling out the M isn't panacea that it was in the 90's.

Having said all that, just purely having good coaching will help immensely. There has been gross underachievement for a long time. WM posted all of the 5 stars they've had for the last 10 years, it is not a who's who list.

[The Oracle]

How well is JH recruiting?

This question boils down to two camps arguing from two POVs.

Camp one, those who think Harbaugh is doing great, he's a great evaluator of talent and the coaching staff are going to take these risky 2-3* kids and develop them, live in the world of Michigan football through about 2003 or 4. Forever optimistic ..... we'll be better next game or next year or next whatever. What I see are arguments by this group that essentially grasp at straws to make a point and then that point is rendered unsupportable by the facts. e.g., "a lot of HS kids, potentially great players at the next level, never get the chance and end up in the MAC to later move up and have great NFL careers." That argument, speculative at best, is NOT supported by the facts.

Camp two includes the growing number of skeptics, myself included, who look at the objective facts such as - stars and what the recruiting services say about a HS player have a direct relationship to on field success - and have a hard time believing JH is going to turn M football into a juggernaut capable of competing for NCs.

Those of us in Camp two have probably abandoned that wide eyed enthusiastic belief that shaped our view of M football under Bo and Gary and Lloyd in their best years. Things will improve.

I don't even think you have the 2 camps right. I don't see any of your Camp one by anyone, anywhere. I see your camp 2 as comparing JH recruiting to RichRod and there's great concern in "that camp".

[Hannibal]

I don't even think you have the 2 camps right. I don't see any of your Camp one by anyone, anywhere.

http://mgoblog.com/

[Prime2]

MgoBlog:

Brian,

Does it concern you yet that Harbaugh and staff are going after so many 3-star or less recruits (and even unranked ones) rather than shooting for more 4- and 5-star types? Might JH be underestimating his own standing and instead still be in "I'm at Stanford" mentality (i.e., "I need to find the hidden gems because the 5-stars are going to USC, Alabama, and such")?

Thanks for the blog, and give Ace a raise.

Hail to the bloggers,

Dayne

This is so overblown. Michigan has ten commits. Five of them are composite four-stars (Swenson, Onwenu, Peters, Falcon, and Evans). Of the five who aren't, one committed to Brady Hoke (Harding), one is (probably) a fullback (Reese), and one picked up Nebraska, LSU, and Florida offers after his commitment (Davis). The two other guys are Kiante Enis and Dytarious Johnson. Enis ran for three thousand(!) yards last year and Johnson looks like a BAMF on his Hudl film.

That is not a high flier rate thus far. The two guys who truly qualify are both gentlemen an expert talent evaluator has seen in person.

Meanwhile, here is a list of high four star recruits who Michigan is thought to lead for: NJ WR Ahmir Mitchell, NJ WR Brad Hawkins, PA TE Nasseir Upshur, MD OL Terrance Davis, WI OL Ben Bredeson, MI DE Khalid Kareem, and NJ DE Ron Johnson. They are at or near the top for five star NJ DT Rashan Gary and CA LB Caleb Kelly.

They won't get all those guys; they'll get a healthy chunk, and they'll get involved with more guys down the road. It's not going to be an Alabama class but it should be comfortably top ten.

And that's only half the reason recruiting concern is overblown. The other half:



That class was Andrew Luck and three stars. It followed a class that was all three stars, and ranked ninth in the then Pac-10. Stanford was slightly better than that when those classes bore fruit. Recruiting is important; coaching is more important

Please enjoy Gin responsibly, post meridiem .

[Da Geezer]

Buchanan, you lurched into a really accurate post. Even Talent and I agree with you.

I still would have folks here look at the all B10 teams (first through fourth). OSU has 17 players named, and that really doesn't count any freshmen that have a breakthrough year. No UM player is on the first or second teams. On a national level, 8 OSU players make the All-American teams, 5 from MSU and 1 from some others in the B10, but 0 from UM. Heck, a good case can be made that OSU has 3 of the best 4 QB's in the conference right now. The cupboard is bare fellas.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Brian at mgoblog: "Recruiting is important; coaching is more important."

Next question for Brian:

Brian, tell me how you objectively measure the impact of coaching to on field success as an independent variable?

Generally, you can't ...... I suspect a statistician might offer a way to isolate this and do an analysis that had some power to it. But I think, in the end, that analysis is going to be rife with holes.

You can directly associate recruiting success to on field success using a number of sources to make that comparison.

This is a no brainer and I find Brian's statement to be unsupportable.

[Jeff Buchanan]

..... and for all you other Pollyanna's out there, don't let the facts get in the way.

As harsh as that sounds, here's how I feel about all this. For decades I've allowed myself to be optimistic about M football every summer and early fall leading up to the season. For the most part, my expectations were met until the ASU debacle in 2007 and the season that followed. Then, I allowed my notions of RR's success with the spread influence my optimism for his arrival and the team's fortunes going forward. Then he shit the bed followed by the clown show tht was Dave Brandon and Brady Hoke.

I'm done with that.

HARBAUGH is clearly a great football coach and loves Michigan football or he'd be still coaching in the NFL. So, I give him credit there but until he demonstrates he can deliver championship level play, I'm not buying that he is M's savior.

Sure, it may be "too early" to really assess the 2016 class. That's fair and some great recruits might show up. But, on balance, none of them will be ready for prime time until 2018. That reality sets up the likelihood of another dialogue that features wait till next year thinking.

Another reality is that JH is an odd-ball. talent has made a point about this and made some good points about how some people like that, some don't. He also made the point that what you really need in a good recruiter is a steady ambassador for your program that can convince HS coaches to push great talent to a great school with a great coaching staff and, at the same time, connect with the kids and their families. It helps, it helps a TON, if your program is winning big time. JH and team Michigan have yet to demonstrate that and he's losing ground by taking risky commits who are not likely to contribute to big time winning any time soon.

I'm tired of waiting and the facts on the ground suggest well, we're just going to have to wait and see.

[Prime2]

That's a slippery precipice.

Bruce Jenner was done with being a man and less Hack, most will agree, nothing good will ever come from it.

[Mike]

At least he can wear those shorts from 1976 again and not be unfashionable.

[Da Geezer]

I guess Cait is a little old for the women's decathlon. That is coming though.

[iam416]

Jeez, Buchanan...you're gonna end making me defend JH! You're going to rival Hanni for dour realism/pessimism.

[Ghengis Jon]

I think Harbaugh is offering those he think that can be coached up/developed as early as he can. He knows that probably half will go somewhere else or be flipped closer to signing day. Nothing is certain until the name is on the dotted line. Basically, I think all these early offers are UM propaganda to keep (or rather put) Michigan in the minds of players. Face it, M has been nothing to brag about for far too long. Kids remember winners and winning programs. Most of the offerees don't remember when M was truly good. By offering so early, other teammates will know and remember so-n-so was offered by MICHIGAN. Even when JH isn't in the current news (a rarity of late), Bob will remember Joe was offered by MICHIGAN. He's planting seeds in the minds of players, even the ones not offered. I think its a good move. You think JH strikes the position off the needs list just because he's offered a spot to someone? No way. He's putting UM into the minds of everyone. After this season is over, I don't believe he'll offer another 2*. His current offers are a strategic ploy to keep (put) Michigan on the horizon, and not stay beneath the radar where we have fallen.

[hack]

LOL @ Mike! On fire lately.

Jeff settle down already. If human knowledge was limited to anything objectively provable we'd know a lot less than we do. For example we don't know objectively that OP has a somewhat different sexual orientation, but he regularly provides us with evidence that that's what we should think. Nobody knows for sure and none of us really want to go to the lengths required to confirm it, but we all know it nonetheless.

[Prime2]

Cheer up Hack , maybe Bruce Catilyn and you will be bunkmates in the state hospital for gender challenged wackos.