UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[froot loops]

But nobody is saying that at all. The thing I'm saying is you shouldn't get all bent out of shape if Harbaugh takes a flyer on a lowly rated guy. The point is coaching matters, you should see some develop. IMO, one of the biggest problems of the Michigan program going back to the last years of Lloyd is that it seems like nobody got better, no lower rated guys became instant contributors.

[Rocky Bleier]

Rocky, how old are you?

JH is 51. If you look at his frame when he was in his 20s, he had wide hips compared to his shoulders. So, comparatively small in the chest and shoulder area to begin with.

By the time you are in your mid-30s, you're loosing muscle mass. As you approach 50, you're weak on testosterone and the balance between estrogen and testosterone favors the former. You get soft looking (unless you are taking testosterone or growth hormone or both).

It's downhill from there. It takes a ton of effort to maintain muscles mass in the thighs and upper body. It can be done but without drugs (which carry their own set of risks) it is really hard. Much harder than when you lifted in your 20s and even 30s. There are exceptions with some lucky males just having "it." A physique that sustains itself for reasons nobody really knows.

I'm almost 70. I gave up serious weight training about 20 years ago because I don't have one of those sustainable physiques. I use weights, light ones, but it is all focused toward maintaining function and flexibility.

I am absolutely positive I could improve muscle mass with HGH and a smattering of testosterone injections but I'm opposed to that sort of thing.

I'm 55 and I look better than Jim Harbaugh. I haven't lifted for a couple of years, but I still look better than JH. I used to know a guy at the local gym who power lifted at 67 yrs. old. He looked fantastic! You have to keep it up. Jimmy looks like he quit caring years ago.

[*JD*]

I'm not in the panic (or Drew Sharp) mode that some of you seem to be in. That said, I do prefer The Harbaughller coaching up 4-5* players than 2-3*. There are still something like 15 scholarships left to give out, so I'm hopeful there will be a few more prominent players added or flipped from other schools. Another bright side is that there are still some 4 & 5* guys that Hoke left behind that severely need coaching up and I think we got a guy who can do that.

[drok]

I'm concerned, but more in line with what JD is saying. I'm willing to wait and see where the class ends up, but am surprised by the number of early commits from what appear to be riskier prospects.

[Da Geezer]

Here is Steele's projected All-American and All B10 teams:

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2015/6/1/8699873/ohio-state-football-2015-phil-steele-preview-magazine-preseason-all-american

count the players. UM has limited talent, and is lacking in the positions that are most important, OB and WR

[hack]

I think JD's struck the right balance there. No doubt about it though, Harbaugh is taking on a real challenge. What Dave Brandon, Bill Martin, Mary Sue Coleman, Lloyd Carr and the rest of them did will set the program back beyond just RR's and Hoke's years here. If only becuse it's going to be years before we can match OSU in terms of overall talent. That's not even close to a death sentence, and who knows -- in all seriousness it could be any time that something serious again trips up that program, because they aren't clean. Or Meyer may indeed need to find an excuse to leave again. We don't know. All I know is that Michigan had better win some of those. I know it's going to.

[Prime2]

Some of you mollycoddled stargazers need to get a grip.

[Mike]

The resemblance is uncanny.

[*JD*]

Jesus had better abs but he was only 33, right?

[Cody_Russell]

I find it interesting how hard Michigan is recruiting RB.
The 2016 class has 10 commits at this point... 4 are "RBs?!"

[Jeff Buchanan]

How well is JH recruiting?

This question boils down to two camps arguing from two POVs.

Camp one, those who think Harbaugh is doing great, he's a great evaluator of talent and the coaching staff are going to take these risky 2-3* kids and develop them, live in the world of Michigan football through about 2003 or 4. Forever optimistic ..... we'll be better next game or next year or next whatever. What I see are arguments by this group that essentially grasp at straws to make a point and then that point is rendered unsupportable by the facts. e.g., "a lot of HS kids, potentially great players at the next level, never get the chance and end up in the MAC to later move up and have great NFL careers." That argument, speculative at best, is NOT supported by the facts.

Camp two includes the growing number of skeptics, myself included, who look at the objective facts such as - stars and what the recruiting services say about a HS player have a direct relationship to on field success - and have a hard time believing JH is going to turn M football into a juggernaut capable of competing for NCs.

Those of us in Camp two have probably abandoned that wide eyed enthusiastic belief that shaped our view of M football under Bo and Gary and Lloyd in their best years. Things will improve.

Well, over the last decade no they did not. In fact, M football sunk to new lows looking more like conference bottom dwellers Indiana and Purdue than a part of the Big Two that left the rest in the dust during M's football hay day.

A couple of things:

The HARBAUGH effect on recruiting has not materialized if one is to look objectively at the 2016 class so far. Maybe it will but I've moved out of that enthusiastically hopeful camp and into the camp of skeptics and doubters who aren't ignoring the facts.

I still believe that the culture at M, that being set by administrators, faculty and Regents, cares less about dominating college football and more about athletes staying out of trouble, doing well in class, graduating and distinguishing themselves in their later work lives and communities. They see collegiate athletics as an integral part, not the paramount part, of university.

What this tends to do is lower expectations for the performance of the revenue generating program coaches. That would be Beilein and Harbaugh. It also creates the circumstances where these coaches and their staffs are more likely to pursue and offer HS players that will fit into the particular M culture I've described above. It's not overt. It's subtle and this is not to say MSU, osu and others among BIG members don't care about these things, they do, but winning may be more important and that culture is reflected in how the teams recruit, what those recruited players achieve academically, what they do after college and how they distinguish themselves in their communities and work lives after college football or basketball.

I have no doubt what dyed in the wool M football fans want - 12-0, a Big Ten Conference championship and a shot at the national title - is a lot different than what the expectations are for M football as seen by M's administrators, faculty and Regents.

So, sure, I'm for 10-2 as a starting point for JH with wins against MSU and osu in 2015. But that is tempered by my understanding of the cultural forces at work that surround M football and direct Harbaugh's work and the facts on the ground that point to a less than impressive team building effort with regard to recruiting.

My skepticism leads me to believe M will lose one or both of their home games against MSU and osu by virtue of the talent gap between M and these two teams. They'll lose to Utah on the road to open the season because that is a tough opener for any team and they'll lose a couple of road games. So, I see 8-4, even 7-5, as a lot more likely than 10-2 ....... and that is a huge departure from my historical pre-season views that I held when I was among those fans in Camp One.

[iam416]

Hmmmmm, well said, Buchanan.

One camp: Subjective. HARBAUGH!!!! He's a great talent scout and ergo ANY recruit he signs must be great. The classic bootstrap.

Other camp: Objective. Recruiting rankings. Solid start. A nice core to the class but he'll need to reel in a few big boys to get this class above solid.

The only thing I'd caution you against is letting your pessimism color how badly HARBAUGH!!!! wants to win. Don't buy the "culture" excuse. MSU and OSU had 5 commits this weekend and I'm sure M offered 4 of them (not sure on the 3* DT from Illinois). They just lost out. The 2* and 3* kids aren't "culture" kids -- they're kids JH thinks can play after getting to see them in person. However, if you're right -- if M is recruiting kids that are, heh, "M Men", then they'll rarely beat UFM. I don't buy it because I know how many kids M has offered. And, heh, Rashan Gary isn't some sort of "culture" guy -- he's your regular hellacious asskicking DT that typically lines up for LSU or Alabama.

I will repeat my own take. I'm not sure JH is a great recruiter. It's a comfort and relationships game, and JH strikes me as a strong personality (I might say eccentric or batshit crazy). He seems to have the personality that you either like or rubs you the wrong way. In terms of recruiting, I'm not sure that's so great. I think you'd be better off being able to relate a wider audience, but that's JMO. We'll see how it goes.

I'm also 100% sure he can coach. So, I think 8-4 with what I think is spotty talent and a questionable QB situation and play-maker deficiency.

[Hannibal]

With these questionable offers I sense a lot of hubris i.e. "I am Harbaugh I can make a star out of anyone. That includes the tight end who isn't even the second best tight end on his high school football team". It's something that I was hoping would have been beaten out of the program by now.

[Prime2]

Not to be consumed by such trivial matters, but the Harbaugh reign began in January of 2015 and I would never saddle him with a decade+ of gross incompetence and mismangement before him.

JH's current class has risen from 35th to 20th and I suspect he finishes in the top-10 with a Gary/Kelly/Michelle or more additional 5ers. If building rapport and eventual pipelines to Fl, CA, TX, AL, PA and alike means taking a few undervalued recruits and turning them into decent college players than so be it, Harbaugh obviously knows he has room in the class for such long-term vision.

I can't think of a better coach in the Pros or College better suited than JH to put Michigan back on top.

Personally I am going to let him do what he does best and not mico criticize or question his every move.

Harbaugh was one of the most highly sought-after coaches in the Professional Ranks by billionaire owners who routinely win at nearly everything they do in life. Michigan was so extremely lucky to have landed him. Let him do what he does best.

[iam416]

Hanni:

I get that sense a little, but it's so early. At the end of the day my narrow way of thinking is roughly this: you're never going to consistently compete with UFM's OSU teams with 3* kids. Nor will you win a national title.

But it's waaaay to early in the process to get concerned, IMO. They're in on Gary, Kelly and Bredeson. If they get 2 of 3 from that group that really amps up the class. They're also in on the OL from Maryland and Mitchell from NJ -- two top 100 kids. If they get 3 or 4 from that group, then the class will be pretty strong.

Obviously most fans would rather get the the big boys first and fill in the class later, but if you end up at the same place the route doesn't really matter.