UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[iam416]

Hannibal:

Your recruiting point is fair, but HARBAUGH!

Buchanan:

A significant coaching disparity can overcome a significant talent disparity. No question. I think we'd agree that there is a talent disparity between OSU and M. There's no quantitative measure to it, but qualitatively I'd call it "significant." That means, IMO, for JH to "harness HARBAUGH!!!" and beat OSU he will have to make up the talent disparity with coaching. That means he has to be considerably better than UFM for that game. There's zero other way your statement makes any sense.

If you think JH and UFM are basically on par, then the rational approach is to look at talent and say, eh, coaching is a wash, talent isn't -- doesn't look too good for M. If you think M is going to win you HAVE to think, at a minimum, that JH will significantly outcoach UFM on that day.

[drok]

To be fair, you can be peers in coaching in general, but outperform that peer in one match up. I think that's what we're hoping for this year with OSU.

[WM Wolverine]

Kingston Davis RB will certainly end up a 4-star. He's seen his stock go up with his recent performances and offers like LSU, Florida, Nebraska are offering him...

I don't think he's as committed as he should be (he'll take officials supposedly), if I were JH I'd still be recruiting RB's with him...

[lineygoblue]

Bo outcoached Woody in 6 of the 10 games they faced each other, yet he had to start his Michigan coaching career at a disadvantage, facing a world destructing ohio team coming off 55 undefeated national championships in a row. He spent most of his career not getting credit for being the coach that Woody was.

Harbaugh is starting the same way. He does not receive respect for his coaching experience, and he's going up against a world shattering ohio juggernaut that has won the last 62 national championships. He's doomed.

[The Oracle]

Harbaugh doesn't receive respect???!!!!!???

[iam416]

To be fair, you can be peers in coaching in general, but outperform that peer in one match up. I think that's what we're hoping for this year with OSU.

Yeah, I get that, drok. I even said: "If you think M is going to win you HAVE to think, at a minimum, that JH will significantly outcoach UFM on that day."

Harbaugh doesn't receive respect???!!!!!???

Liney is in maximum sarcasm mode. It's his defense to anything that dares challenge his view of the world. Think OSU has a good chance to beat M? NO RESPECT! 60 bazilion titles in a row!!!! Etc.

[Jeff Buchanan]

What does "out coach" mean"

I look at this and think coaching, like being a great military unit leader, encompasses two elements. First understanding and flat out knowing your job. Second, being a great leader and motivator.

My present view based on the available information is that ufm v JH on the first element is probably a draw. On the second, HARBAUGH.

[iam416]

Yes, I understand. You think JH >>> UFM except when you don't.

Interestingly enough, there's some interesting discussion about JH and recruiting on OSU forum I actually read. You know, since 5* recruits aren't lining up to play for such a magnificent motivator and leader, why? Interesting thing about recruiting is that the best recruiters are humble - they know the kids they want have lots of choices and they know they have to always sell and recruit. Merely showing up and expecting awe doesn't cut it.

But, I'm sure JH will figure it out. He's surely a better recruiter than UFM, in addition to being better leader and motivator.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I guess we'll find out ..... Who's the better coach, all things considered and right now, the issue of who recruits better isn't going to mean shit on game day.

The Nazis thought they "recruited" better blonde headed, chisel faced Ariens but in the end got their asses kicked.

One of is going to eat a big bowl of dick come November.

[WM Wolverine]

M was lucky against Northwestern otherwise ohio would've won 3.5 times as many games as M...

M has tons of catching up to do that coaching up players will only help so much. ohio didn't even lose much to attrition...

ohio is very likely to come to Ann Arbor in November with at most one loss and leave with at most one.

[The Oracle]

How dramatic.

[iam416]

urbz is a great coach. I don't think you'll be able to find a place in this forum where I have said Harbaugh is a better coach than ufm

Well, I guess there are now several places for me where I can find such statements.

the issue of who recruits better isn't going to mean shit on game day.

That's an interesting approach to roster talent. Fascinating. If talent doesn't matter come game day then I'm at a loss to understand who a great coach like JH would go 4-8, 5-7 and 8-5 in his first 3 seasons at Stanford. For those scoring at home, that's 17-20. I mean, if talent doesn't matter come game day.

And seriously, your WWII analogies were way off to start with, but the nazi recruiting thing is just awful.

[Ghengis Jon]

ohio is very likely to come to Ann Arbor in November with at most one loss and leave with at most one.

Seems likely, but it is The Game after all. In 1996 osu should have beaten UM 200-0, but how did that work out? In 2013, with far lesser coaching, UM was a 2 pt conversion away. One never knows...

[lineygoblue]

ohio is very likely to come to Ann Arbor in November with at most one loss and leave with at most one.

Shame on you. Your irrational ohio hatred for suggesting that they are capable of losing a game, calls for a Hoke-like apology on your part to the ohio forum owners here.

I'm standing by to read your apology sir. Make it a good one.

[Jeff Buchanan]

......... If talent doesn't matter come game day then I'm at a loss to understand who a great coach like JH would go 4-8, 5-7 and 8-5 in his first 3 seasons at Stanford. For those scoring at home, that's 17-20. I mean, if talent doesn't matter come game day.

Your parsing words. No surprise. To repeat. I think ufm is a great coach. I'd say in terms of football knowledge, both coaches, ufm and JH, have demonstrated a high level of competence in using that knowledge to produce impressive on field results so, draw.

I'd rate Harbaugh the better leader. Sure, it's a biased view and one influenced by the degree to which I know Harbaugh embraces the leadership principles the Marine Corps develops in both its officers and enlisted men. I think you know exactly what I mean and understand exactly why I drew examples of great leadership from the Battle of the Bulge.

And seriously, your WWII analogies were way off to start with, but the nazi recruiting thing is just awful.

Yeah, the Nazi recruiting one is a little corny but I love drama.

Finally, I understand it and you know I understand it because I have been very clear about this in posts involving recruiting and how important recruiting talent and developing talent is.

But, there are times when grit (or whatever you want to call it) overcomes talent and produces wins. It happens on the battle field, a place where I like to draw analogies to football because there are striking similarities to be found there. Woody understood that and used it to motivate players. You disparage that aspect of osu's history by waving it off as unimportant or silly (and I know you don't really think that way).

One of the classic times grit overcomes talent is in The Game. There are a ton of other examples in CFB some of the best applying to our discussion here is JH at Stanford whipping Peety's USC teams. Don't pretend you don't understand this or that it doesn't apply. It does.