UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[Optimus Prime]

That was nothing more than a liqour-induced diatride, have seen dozens of them over the 13 years I've been here. Gives as good as he gets. I know I've never posted before in a Bucknut Forum before, I can tell you that much.

Still, I think of Talent as very much like a mildly neglected pet chimp, I can't resist rattling his cage now and then with a banana or a yo-yo.

Hack is still gay.

[iam416]

Thanks, Buchanan. Appreciated. Apologies for less than courteous decorum on this thread in one post, though I was still very much on topic. And I still very much believe that Hoke recruited the same type of players JH will recruit and that M is actually reasonably well-positioned for next season thanks to those efforts. I think M is a poor-man's version of the Niners team JH walked into. I do not subscribe to some sort of JH intuitive antenna about courage, toughness, competitiveness, etc. I think he would have recruited almost every player Hoke did including Sugar Shane. Frankly, I have to wonder where Shane would be if he had JH for his entire career. Hoke failed miserably from the moment they set foot on campus, but was, IMO, good at getting kids to AA.

And, of course, Paul and Whodean are utterly worthless. Heh.

[hack]

Most of us agree anyhow, but your tantrum is an example of what I mean when I say ``you will never know the joy of winning clean''. We're a month on and here you are engaging in this meaningless bullshit instead of just pointing and laughing. This is because of that empty feeling somewhere in your interior. You know that we're gonna take one at some point, and you know we'll be on a high you'll never ever know. At that same one-month later point I expect I won't even be aware of OSU's existence, much less engaging with you losers.

[iam416]

What tantrum? I had fun owning you boys big-time on the Ohio thread and laughed heartily, but I was absolutely on point on this thread aside from calling you boys hypocritical douchers...the douchers was gratuitous.

But, hey, you're still here flaming on the recruiting thread...obsessively posting the same truly god-awful nonsense in response to an on-topic post that has zero to do with you.

[hack]

You've made that very solid point that we've been wrong before and sometimes our excitement wasn't fully warranted. And that there's a Michigan blogger who sometimes gets praise and sometimes doesn't. Wow what awful people we are here. It's very important that you've pointed this out.

[iam416]

Wow. Didn't realize I hurt you so badly. Still not sure what any of this has to do with the M recruiting thread, but I'm also fairly sure you'll follow me anywhere to get your hurt out.

[hack]

We have K-stat here for those type of responses. Don't be influenced.

[lineygoblue]

Take the argument to the appropriate thread, guys.

Michigan Football Recruiting is the topic.

Thanks.

[Optimus Prime]

Thanks Liney.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Back on point re Hoke's QB recruiting .......

From the way things turned out in Sugar Shane's 1st (2013, albeit he was an early enrollee as I remember so was there for spring ball and fall camp 2013) and 2nd year with program (2014), he does not look like a Division 1 QB (and I'm not shitting on him just looking at what he looks like live and it's not good).

We have two options here regarding why this is so. (1) Hokeorges can't recruit QBs worth a shit because they can't get past the hype and make a good assessment or (2) he really was a 5* kid who was horribly developed.

On one side of that argument we have the regression of DG. So two apparently really good QBs ended up sucking form a technical standpoint. No question DG had heart. Bless the guy. On the other, we have monumental mismanagement of the position (QB) from a recruiting of quality AND quantity standpoint, acknowledged by any competent observer.

First, Harbaugh is a QB with a lot of medals to show for how good he was at many levels. Second, he has a track record of picking, then developing QBs at both the CFB and NFL levels.

My entire argument on this subject has absolutely nothing to do with the touch feely shit (grit, competitiveness, etc.) and everything to do with Harbaugh's ability to look at film and say this guy is it .... or not it. IMO, that was a distinct and palpable failure of Hokeorges and the net result has ben stupefying offensive inefficiency. That's on the QBs, all of them on the current roster because all of them certainly had chances and all of them failed stupendously.

I don't think Harbaugh is ever going to let that happen at M again. His rush to offer the number and quality of QBs he has offered is a testament to that viewpoint. I also believe that is going to be the key feature of any improvement in M's offense going forward. The QB will make the plays that JH calls when they need to be made. There will more likely be big, game changing plays because Harbaugh knows how to scout, pick and develop QBs to do that.

So, yeah, bottom line is that Harbuagh recruits (and develops) way differently than Hoke at the QB position ........ and I'm not giving up until you say uncle, talent.

[iam416]

Do you think JH would have recruited Shane, Buchanan? Because I don't think there's any doubt whatsoever in my mind that he would have.

It may be that JH better understands the position. I reckon any competent coach understands more about football than Hoke. So, I'd definitely trust JH over Hoke if it came down to assessing a 3*. However, I think JH would have absolutely recruited Sugar Shane and been thrilled to get him.

I think Hoke's recruiting after Shane failed when he settled for Speight.

As for development, I think Ohio State offers an example of what competent coaching can do (compare 2011 to 2012-14).

[Jeff Buchanan]

Do you think JH would have recruited Shane, Buchanan? Because I don't think there's any doubt whatsoever in my mind that he would have.

Hmmmm..... really hard to say.

You know this recruiting game better than I do. From what I've read (retrospectively) Morris was over-rated at his position. I'm no judge of that. If you think Harbaugh would have sucked him up quickly in the early recruiting cycle, you may be right.

But, and this is big, (1) I think he would have seen the problems I see now right away, (2) would have had many more QB options thn Hokeorges went for at the QB position in the 2013 class, and (3) would have quickly identified among those options who had it and who didn't.

I think we'll know more about this after we see where Morris fits in on the QB depth chart for 2015. My bet is he will behind at least two other QBs. For Sugar Shane's sake, it'd be nice if I was wrong. I don't think I will be.

[The Oracle]

He 100% would have recruited Shane. He's looked like shit because of poor coaching. He may have been overrated coming out of HS, but he's got a talented arm. I think we'll see a slight bump up in QB coaching and play under JH.

[iam416]

Heh. "Slight" bump up. I like that.

JB:

Hoke's 2013 class was really good. I think there are probably two criticisms of Hoke's recruiting. First, he never really landed true game-breakers, either at RB or WR. That might have been by design/due to offensive proclivity, but I'm skeptical. Second, I think he settled way to early on Speight for the 2014 QB. That's far more specific.

However, in comparison to OSU, UFM missed on all his top 2014 QBs and settled for Collier. This season they missed on guys and settled for Burrow. It happens.

As I said, I think the Plan B and Plan C evaluations under JH could be significantly better than under Hoke. But the Plan A guys are obvious. Shane was an obvious recruit. I think Costello is an obvious recruit. The kid from Indiana is not.

[hack]

The way recruiting would be and already IS different is the competition factor. Hoke put all his eggs in the Morris basket and Harbaugh is loading up on QBs and forcing them to beat each other. Maybe JH would have perceived Morris as overrated, but as a guy who likes to take a good number of QBs, as well as a guy wary of MSU, it's very hard to see him passing on Morris.