UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[Hannibal]

When Carr and Moeller were our coaches they got our table scraps every year plus maybe one stud that we wanted. Hoke temporarily restored that which is a big part of why the 2012-2013 Sparty classes were poop.

[iam416]

I think MSU is in a better place than they were in 2012. They're actually a viable option.

[hack]

I hope that it's a really scathing account that calls out every stooge responsible for the current state of Michigan football. Carr, Martin, Brandon, Hoke, RichRod. Everyone.

Unfortunately there may be no heads left to roll. Brandon's gone and so is MSC. Hackett has broomed out a bunch of Brandon people in the AD, and DeBord has been shuffled off. I don't know how many people are left. I'd be delighted to see more people axed though. In the past decade Michigan's administration has gone to great lengths to avoid accountability.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I'm still not sure how Weber was "treated." Again, does Drayton say he's looking at NFL jobs? What if he doesn't get the job.

Weber's reaction was one of disappointment, no doubt, that his RB coach left. Warren Ball also reacted similarly. I doubt Warren Ball wants to leave the program.

Finally, if the words of Weber are dispositive, well then you have to believe Harbaugh lied to him about 1 RB. I mean, that's what he's said.

My guess is you believe the anguish of Weber as it suits you. Not really a guess.

Maybe he shouldn't stay on the phone with Mikey until after midnight the day before NSD telling him how he was going to coach Weber...

"Just being a Michigan kid who is going to graduate with an Ohio State degree and wants to live in his state again. He wants to represent Detroit wearing scarlet and gray, and he absolutely can do that. He absolutely will do it," Drayton said. "I have a wife from Detroit. I told him, 'If I sit here and coach you and not let you represent Detroit, my wife is probably going to divorce me.'
"There's no way in the world I am not going to let you represent where you're from. Not only that, I am going to be able to help you make an impact from the society you come from."

so....yeah. Maybe he should have been upfront. but like you've said...this is big boy business. I'm sorry that Weber got caught up in it, and I wish him all the success in the world off of the football field.

[Hannibal]

Unfortunately there may be no heads left to roll. Brandon's gone and so is MSC. Hackett has broomed out a bunch of Brandon people in the AD, and DeBord has been shuffled off. I don't know how many people are left. I'd be delighted to see more people axed though. In the past decade Michigan's administration has gone to great lengths to avoid accountability.

I don't care if anyone gets the axe as long as some legacies are appropriately destroyed.

Edit: I'm thinking specifically of The Five Clowns. Six if you include Mary Sue Coleman.

[hack]

I'm still not sure how Weber was "treated." Again, does Drayton say he's looking at NFL jobs? What if he doesn't get the job.

Weber's reaction was one of disappointment, no doubt, that his RB coach left. Warren Ball also reacted similarly. I doubt Warren Ball wants to leave the program.

Finally, if the words of Weber are dispositive, well then you have to believe Harbaugh lied to him about 1 RB. I mean, that's what he's said.

My guess is you believe the anguish of Weber as it suits you. Not really a guess.

This sort of bullshit is why you are you and we are us. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[iam416]

Neither would I.

[hack]

I don't care if anyone gets the axe as long as some legacies are appropriately destroyed.

Edit: I'm thinking specifically of The Five Clowns. Six if you include Mary Sue Coleman.

Who are the five clowns?

[Hannibal]

Martin, Carr, RichRod, Brandon, Hoke. All of them did their part.

[froot loops]

MSU is stating to branch out nationally, historically that was their recruiting strategy when they were a power under Munn and Daugherty.

I never really recall that many recruiting battles between the two schools. Not many nasty ones to be sure. Dantonio's approach seems to be a little laid back. If the PSL has some good prospects, expect Michigan to be in the lead. If it is outstate, MSU will be more involved

[hack]

Martin, Carr, RichRod, Brandon, Hoke. All of them did their part.

Ah, OK. Sure. IMO it's four clowns. My current frustrations with Beilein aside, Martin did conduct an intelligent coaching search there. That's just one of the things that tells me that what happened was thanks to bigger forces at that time. Martin had no business being AD -- IMO the AD job is for ADs, not ex-CEOs in need of a role and can benefit from nepotism. But once he got the job he did a good job with the finances and you can understand precisely why the track record was mixed on coaching hires.

Going down the line, it's Carr and Brandon for me, then RichRod and then Hoke. Brandon's gone and the process of undoing what he did is well underway. He's not going to have a positive legacy. RichRod's legacy can't get worse. I don't know how reasonable or necessary it is to bang on Hoke. The people that made Hoke possible are gone. Things got sane again.

Leaves you with Carr. ABSOLUTELY. Let's never forget what a great job he did in '97 and that he upheld the values the school lives by when he was a coach, but also that he later failed to live up to them himself, and did a lot of damage thanks to hubris and a closed-minded certainty he had no business having. Mixed legacy, but the lesson for Michigan is that when someone is finished in a job they have to leave. Clear out and give room to the next person. No hanging around pulling levers behind the scenes.

[Hannibal]

RichRod's legacy has gotten somewhat of a Nixonian makeover in the past couple of years. IMHO it can and needs to get worse. People have forgotten what a truly terrible coach he was (like how his team couldn't even catch a kicked ball until his second year). Or they have overinterpreted a few statements about lack of support from Carr to mean that RichRod had no agency in what happened on the field. The revisionism has to stop. Carr left behind something shaky and rebuildable and RichRod turned it into something utterly humiliating. 0-7 against MSU, OSU, and bowl games with the losses by a combined 151 points. He fucking sucks. I have him at the top of the list above Carr but it's a close contest.

I agree it is past time to give Carr a flogging.

[hack]

I just don't see what lessons from slagging RichRod. He was pretty terrible. Maybe in the long run it's a good thing he didnt' get to bring Casteel becuase from what I saw he lacked the attention to detail and a full view of the three phases and will never lead a truly elite program as a result. He's an OC.

But if the takeaway is that the Michigan Man thing is a counterproductive myth, and that coaches shouldn't have to fight against behind-the-scenes forces, well IMO that's 100% the important lesson for the people in charge to heave learned.

[Kstat]

I'll never forget how horribly over-matched RichRod's defense was, especially his final season. Defense will never be a priority for him, so he stumbles badly in finding talent on that side of the ball.

His offense has been and will always be very good to elite. Unfortunately his style was never going to work in the B1G where the elements and physical style of play conspire to slow you down.

[Kstat]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/02/06/buckeyes-mike-weber-stan-drayton/22976915/

I'm very amused at all the hand-wringing by both the national and Ohio media over the Mike Weber thing, but Urban will never, ever let Weber go, considering he already know where he'll wind up if he does. He'll take the media backlash over possibly giving his chief rival more ammo to beat him in November. You can already see that in his "time to move forward" comment. He's not in the business of being nice.