UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[lineygoblue]

Was browsing the Freep and Snooze articles lately regarding Michigan recruiting. Hoke is right there again, in on some of the better talent in the country. On the surface, it appears he's doing very good. What I'm concerned about is, .. is he recruiting TOUGH players? And (I also said this on the Free Press page) by "tough" I don't mean guys who can TAKE a beating. We have plenty of those. I'm talking about guys who can DISH OUT a beating. There's a big difference.

Schembechler made team toughness his top priority when he came to Ann Arbor back in '69, because he SAW that Michigan had TALENT, but was too SOFT. He demanded TOUGHNESS, and that's what turned the program around.

When Hoke gets on board with the Schembechler policy of TEAM TOUGHNESS, then things will change for the better with Michigan football.

Until then, he can recruit all the pretty-boy "star power" athletes he wants. It won't make a bit of difference unless they FIRST bring TOUGHNESS to the table.

And its the ONLY way that Michigan's top opponents will start respecting them again.

[Rocky Bleier]

I agree with you on the toughness, but who are the pretty-boys? They sure aren't on the o-line.

[lineygoblue]

Rocky .. Not to mention specific names, but I'm thinking of a few well-recruited players among our defensive corps who so far have been Nancy-boys.

We need some Glenn Steele's .. some Sam Sword's ... and a Alan Branch or two wouldn't hurt either ..

I'd wish for another Woodson, but that's probably unrealistic

[*JD*]

Jake Ryan needs to grow his hair back.

[The Oracle]

Rocky .. Not to mention specific names, but I'm thinking of a few well-recruited players among our defensive corps who so far have been Nancy-boys.

We need some Glenn Steele's .. some Sam Sword's ... and a Alan Branch or two wouldn't hurt either ..

I'd wish for another Woodson, but that's probably unrealistic

WTF, you think they read these boards?? Who are you thinking? It's a pretty harsh description with absolutely nothing to go on. Pretty lame blanket statement.

[lineygoblue]

Okay Oracle.

Tell me why you think this team does not lack toughness.

And again, I'm not talking about the toughness that a guy like Devin Gardner shows by getting beat up every other play. I'm talking about a team toughness where defensive players get off their blocks and make tackles. And not only make tackles, but make a ball carrier regret the fact that he just carried the ball.

Give me some offensive linemen who can make a good right shoulder block, and a left shoulder block, and get the defense out of the way long enough to pick up 3-4 yards on the ground consistently. Do we have any of those?

There is an overall lack of toughness on this team, and its been that way since before RichRod arrived. They get pushed around by the likes of Connecticut, Indiana and Kansas State, and act like they're surprised when other teams hit them hard.

Give me some recent examples of a game where Michigan went in against a very good opponent, and totally, physically dominated them, and punished them.

It happened all the time in the Schembechler era, and that was when a "big" offensive lineman went 260. We got 300 pounders who I could shove out of the way.

[drok]

What you are describing as toughness, I describe as technique, talent and strength. We have the talent part of the equation, but I think we're missing the technique part, which is where coaching (or lack thereof) comes into play. I can't comment on the strength part, although from seeing Barwis versus other strength coaches, we're talking small margins of difference.

[lineygoblue]

I also believe there is talent on this team. I believe that we have physically strong players as well. I believe that we have a coaching staff that is completely familiar with teaching the techniques necessary to become a championship team. The accomplishments of Mattison and Nussmeyer speak for themselves.

However, I believe there is a physical nature to the game that this current group of Michigan players have yet to attain. Either its not being taught, or its something that is not burning in their gut. They're not willing to pay the price in the physical aspect of the game, to get them to a championship level. That's my observation.

[Hannibal]

Was browsing the Freep and Snooze articles lately regarding Michigan recruiting. Hoke is right there again, in on some of the better talent in the country. On the surface, it appears he's doing very good. What I'm concerned about is, .. is he recruiting TOUGH players? And (I also said this on the Free Press page) by "tough" I don't mean guys who can TAKE a beating. We have plenty of those. I'm talking about guys who can DISH OUT a beating. There's a big difference.

Schembechler made team toughness his top priority when he came to Ann Arbor back in '69, because he SAW that Michigan had TALENT, but was too SOFT. He demanded TOUGHNESS, and that's what turned the program around.

When Hoke gets on board with the Schembechler policy of TEAM TOUGHNESS, then things will change for the better with Michigan football.

Until then, he can recruit all the pretty-boy "star power" athletes he wants. It won't make a bit of difference unless they FIRST bring TOUGHNESS to the table.

And its the ONLY way that Michigan's top opponents will start respecting them again.

He's probably recruiting tough enough players. It's what happens to them on campus that seems to be the problem. There are a lot of guys on our roster that OSU and especially MSU wanted.

[Rocky Bleier]

Liney, I don't completely disagree. Rich Rod's teams were run over, and Hoke has been talking about the need to get tougher and more physical since he arrived. Haven't seen it yet, but hopeful that we will as the young players get 3-4 years in a college-level strength and conditioning program. A kid like Kyle Bosch will be nasty as a jr/sr.

[Da Geezer]

I heard that UM has a policy of limited contact during practice because of concussion concerns. I believe Northwestern and UM are the only schools that took this "precaution". I've been bitching about it for two years.

[drok]

...I believe that we have a coaching staff that is completely familiar with teaching the techniques necessary to become a championship team. The accomplishments of Mattison and Nussmeyer speak for themselves...

Really? Other than the 2011 defense, I don't think we've seen evidence of any technique coaching at all.

[lineygoblue]

I think they have the knowledge, Drok. Teaching it to the players, and getting them to do it on the field is another issue. Perhaps its more of a motivational issue.

[hack]

I think drok's got it.

[The Oracle]

Okay Oracle.

Tell me why you think this team does not lack toughness.

And again, I'm not talking about the toughness that a guy like Devin Gardner shows by getting beat up every other play. I'm talking about a team toughness where defensive players get off their blocks and make tackles. And not only make tackles, but make a ball carrier regret the fact that he just carried the ball.

Give me some offensive linemen who can make a good right shoulder block, and a left shoulder block, and get the defense out of the way long enough to pick up 3-4 yards on the ground consistently. Do we have any of those?

There is an overall lack of toughness on this team, and its been that way since before RichRod arrived. They get pushed around by the likes of Connecticut, Indiana and Kansas State, and act like they're surprised when other teams hit them hard.

Give me some recent examples of a game where Michigan went in against a very good opponent, and totally, physically dominated them, and punished them.

It happened all the time in the Schembechler era, and that was when a "big" offensive lineman went 260. We got 300 pounders who I could shove out of the way.

A few people already beat me to it. Lack of toughness isn't coming from WHO we recruit, it's how they're being coached..or not coached. Could be lack of contact in practice. Could be a million different things, but it's not who we're recruiting.