UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[Rocky Bleier]

Apparently, he's caught a lot of noise from "fans" on Twitter. Don't suppose it's beyond Sparty or Schmuck fans to pose as M fans.

Anyway, it's the curse of being an M fan. The one player who our failed OC meant anything to was one of the top RBs in the country. Not like we're deep at the position, either. Being a Michigan fan means Murphy's Law will always get you. He'll either follow Borges or go to osu out of spite.

[Mike]

Didn't we just get one of the top RB's in the country (Green) last year? It would suck to lose him but we need to get the OL squared away or it wouldn't matter if we have Adrian Peterson back there running the ball.

[Hannibal]

Anyway, it's the curse of being an M fan. The one player who our failed OC meant anything to was one of the top RBs in the country. Not like we're deep at the position, either. Being a Michigan fan means Murphy's Law will always get you. He'll either follow Borges or go to osu out of spite.

This

[Jeff Buchanan]

Here's what I see happening.

Harris is gone.

Nussmeir will get hired away after a miserable 2014 season. He'll want to go and someone will pay the price to get him.

Hoke will stay through 2015 and get replaced by ????

Start over.

Blame Lloyd and I mean that in spades.

[Rob F]

I blame Brandon and Martin a lot more than Lloyd. Martin valued sailing much more than the program he supposedly led; Brandon values both $$$ and the spotlight much more than the program he now supposedly leads.

[WingsFan]

Unknown not saying it 100% but just saying...

The disaster that has going on at Michigan over the last 3 years has largely been orchestrated by former Head Coach Lloyd Carr and his minions.

First Les Miles and now Jim Harbaugh have been overlooked to Coach the Michigan Football team because Lloyd Carr doesn't want them in Ann Arbor.

Lloyd Carr believes that he should be on the Mount Rushmore of Michigan Football alongside Fielding H. Yost, Fritz Crisler and Bo Schembechler because of his 1997 National Championship. Lloyd has spent his years in retirement building a coalition that we will call "Lloyd's boys." He has spent a lot of time creating a division between Bo Schembechler's players (the Schembechlers) and his own. In short, he is more concerned about his own legacy than the well-being of Michigan football.



"Lloyd's boys," believe they have the right to shape the program because they won a National Championship and want to return the program to one of Lloyd's old Assistant Brady Hoke



The "the Schembechlers," believing they are the standard at Michigan want to return the program to Bo's direct lineage by hiring one of his former players.

That is the rift, Michigan's goal now is to find a coach to bridge the divide. This is why Brady Hoke shouldn't really be a viable option. Nobody believes he is the guy to calm the waters. The "old Schembechlers" are having none of Brady Hoke.

Lloyd Carr doesn't want Harbaugh to get the job, remember, he didn't hire Harbaugh in 2002 to be a QB Coach, instead opting for another much less successful former Michigan QB, Scott Loeffler. Lloyd's ego and paranoia is clearly clouding his judgement and he had become a distraction in Ann Arbor before new Athletic Director David Brandon asked him not to come to work anymore. Lloyd's nose was also bent out of shape when Harbaugh made comments about Michigan's academic standards at Michigan. Lloyd knows Harbaugh will overwhelm the program and he will be an afterthought in Ann Arbor.

Michigan President Mary Sue Coleman loves Lloyd Carr, because of his fund-raising at Mott's Children's Hospital; he can do no wrong in her eyes. She wants nothing to do with Miles or Harbaugh because Lloyd has poisoned the well for former Bo players as they represent a return to Bo's lineage and not Lloyd's. Well informed sources believe Harbaugh wasn't even offered a contract, that it was a rouse to placate the fan base.

It is interesting to note that the "Lloyds" were the ones who sabotaged Les Miles's chance to get the Michigan job when they hired Rodriguez three years ago. "The Lloyds" leaked the story to Kirk Herbstreit early so he was forced to strongly deny interest in the Michigan job before the National Championship game.

Ironically Les Miles may have aligned himself with the "Lloyds" in order to get Rodriguez out.

My sources also claim that Lloyd has sabotaged Rich Rod at every turn during his tenure at Michigan, including a hand in leaking the "practice-gate" information to the Detroit Free Press.

In the end, the two factions are only hurting Michigan football, the players and Rich Rodriguez. Rich Rod was thrown to the dogs and it is unfair and unseemly. He thought he was hired into a unified Michigan program and he was duped. He didn't make it better with his own mistakes, but he was doomed form day one.

This information comes from two separate sources with no knowledge of the other, I found that stunning and hard to believe until I quizzed them individually without the others knowledge.

[Ghengis Jon]

Les Miles would never ever have been the coach, no matter what Lloyd lobbied. The dirty little not so secret is that LM was banging another's assistant coach's wife. Ironically, many players at the time had heard of the shenanigans before the staff found out. When they did, toward the end of the season, LM was given a choice - leave or be fired. The laundry would inevitably being aired, which would not been good for LM and not good for UM. So he departed to Okie State. This was told to me directly by a former player who was with the program at the time. Lots of people (donors and administration) would not stand for Miles in the head coach position. Brandon's interview was an illusion staged for the masses, a flailing attempt to appear competent, with zero chance of success.

Harbaugh is a different story, one I can't really speak of. Although I think that Brandon completely botched that one from square one, it may have been that Harbaugh had his sights on the NFL even if Michigan came calling. Only Harbaugh knows.

Scott Loeffler was an excellent QB coach. Not necessarily a good QB, but an effective coach and still is. There was nothing wrong with that choice.

Richrod was his own downfall, despite the deck being stacked against him (culture-wise). If he fielded a good defense, he wouldn't have had such a pathetic W-L record. The 3-3-5 (or attempted 3-3-5) was a disaster and trying to force it anyway was probably responsible for not less than half the losses incurred during his tenure. RR's football theory that a great offense can overcome an overwhelmed and largely ignored defense may have worked out east, but certainly not where they play serious football. The what's and why's of ignoring that side of the ball still boggles my mind.

I completely agree that factionalism is a poison that has hurt our program. But the current problems (over the last 6 years) can not be laid completely at Lloyd's feet. Sure, he should have retired a couple of years sooner. No doubt. Bill Martin deserves some (not all) of the blame for the lingering problems.

Dave Brandon is responsible for the lion's share of the current state of affairs, for many reasons. He must have some very powerful friends in high places to still be associated with the university. He is the one clown that should be unceremoniously dumped immediately.

[Mike]

Wingsfan, that post you found has too many factual errors to be taken seriously.

Re: Harbaugh. I'm convinced he simply didn't want the job. I'm sure he was Brandon's top choice but as soon as the SF job opened up we were doomed. And for the reasons Jon pointed out Miles was never getting the job. Ever.

[Kstat]

There is so much stupidity in that post. Who wrote it?

[WingsFan]

Gregg Henson, I believe some of it, not all of it, and its a bit dated

[iam416]

I find the entire M Civil War fascinating and factually impeccable!

Aside from the dramatic qualities, there is a visceral reason to want the Civil War stuff to be true -- or perhaps better put, a visceral reason to want the alternative to be false. The alternative is that M is headed up and run by an unthinkable level of bungling incompetence that has managed to convert one of CFB's storied programs into dreary gray gruel. 41-35 over the past 6 seasons -- tied with Oregon State for 55th best in FBS.

[WingsFan]

I knew Harbaugh was looking to the NFL and wasn't looking to come to Michigan well ahead of the 49er job, not sure about the 'first' Miles fiasco. I also know Lloyd Carr is a trifling and pettifogging man, he didn't like all them. He finally (though was shown the door before hand) was happy when his buddy Hoke came in. I have no doubt he sabotaged RichRod, and at the time I knew a few of the 'LLoyds' who hated RichRod before he coached one game.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Rehire Borges! Save the recruiting class!

[Hannibal]

I find the entire M Civil War fascinating and factually impeccable!

Aside from the dramatic qualities, there is a visceral reason to want the Civil War stuff to be true -- or perhaps better put, a visceral reason to want the alternative to be false. The alternative is that M is headed up and run by an unthinkable level of bungling incompetence that has managed to convert one of CFB's storied programs into dreary gray gruel. 41-35 over the past 6 seasons -- tied with Oregon State for 55th best in FBS.

I don't know why you would want the Civil War theory to be true. If it is true, then it is basically history at this point Michigan's next candidate won't be a guy that will be affected by this dynamic. It will be a guy with a very loose connection, at best, to the Michigan family. There are no realistic Bo or Carr guys left The largest faction at play for Michigan's next hire will be the people who are sick and tired of crappy football. If there is any more Civil War at Michigan, it will be a revolt by the fans against Mary Sue Coleman and Dave Brandon's leadership. I don't think that it's likely, but it wouldn't shock me either.

The Civil War theory has never passed the sniff test for me anyways. Either way, both RichRod and Hoke are guys who made their own beds and have nobody but themselves and their hand-picked assistants to blame for their failures.

The incompetence theory has a lot more evidence on the surface, and it is a harder problem to solve, since Dave Brandon won't be getting fired, but he is probably just poor enough at his job that he can't get a better one.

[iam416]

Correct. I enjoy soap opera aspect of the Civil War theory, but very much hope it's the Incompetence Theory. As you said, the evidence definitely supports the latter.