UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[The Oracle]

That's the one Sam Webb conveniently refers to. I say Alabama has the best class in the country every year. Judging by a look at the major sites, I'd say Michigan fits anywhere from 4-6.

Convenient because Scout is his employer?

[iam416]

Dawson flipped. FWIW.

[WM Wolverine]

Reon Dawson is a Wolverine.

[Rocky Bleier]

Convenient because Scout is his employer?

Yes, and because Scout is the only service that has U-M #1. A caller recently had some concerns about recruiting against osu after they snagged Damon Webb of Cass Tech. He was concerned that osu is talking about national championships as their goal, while Michigan continues to talk about winning the Big Ten. Sam dismissed him by saying that Michigan has the #1 ranked class in the country. Recruiting isn't an exact science, but the other major sites have Michigan lower than osu at this time.

[Rocky Bleier]

Reon Dawson is a Wolverine.

Meh. 247 Sports has him ranked as a three-star and the number 52 player in the state of Ohio. Doesn't really make up for losing Conley, which is when M started recruiting him.

http://247sports.com/Player/Reon-Dawson-17896

[iam416]

I think Scout team rankings are the most favorable to larger classes. As mentioned, Scout looks at the best 25 vs Rivals that looks at the best 20. Also, Scout's rankings, IMO, lack precision. Rivals, e.g., breaks down 4* players from 6.0 to 5.8 and 3* players from 5.7 to 5.5. So, a bunch of 6.0 4* is a real coup (e.g., OSU has 5, I think, which is why they're so high on Rivals w/o a 5*). Scout gives you 200 points for a 5* and 120 points for 4* (and, I think, 80 for a 3*). They then give you points for overall position ranking (101 - position rank) -- so, the topped ranked CB would give you 100 extra points while the #10 OT would give you an extra 90. But here's where it's imprecise -- so Ty Isaac is a 5* and #7 overall RB so he's 293 points. Kelvin Taylor is a 4* and the #8 overall RB, so he's 212 points. Isaac is #37 overall and Taylor is #43 overall. I don't think Rivals doesn't have that "cliff" between star values. The drop between 5.8 and 5.9 is less severe.

I assume 247 and ESPN also have more precision because they assign numerical grades to each of the players. And they also appear to value class size less than Scout.

So, if you're looking for an assessment of quality over more players, i.e., a larger class, Scout is your service. Rivals gives a you a better sense of higher end quality. And, like I said, I haven't looked at how 247 and ESPN do their rankings.

Finally, regardless of service, M is recruiting very well. WM suggested that 3 schools are a step ahead, but I'm not sure about that.

As an Ohio State fan, I think UFM has recruited every bit as good as anyone with the possible exception of Alabama. And he's done it at a marginal disadvantage as a new HC without the same type of relationships that he will have going forward.

I don't see any reason why OSU (and, for that matter, M) won't be fielding teams with the talent to beat anyone. One caveat -- M is probably overly dependent on Shane Morris at the moment. They need to bring in another good QB in 2014.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Just looking at it from a recruiting standpoint, I don't think there is any question that Hoke, et. al. are doing a good job there. But there are critical holes at offensive skill positions. QB, RB and WR seem to be issues with M not able to land difference makers there. To a lesser degree, it happens on D but Mattison is such a strong drawing card right now, I think that is being overcome.

I wonder how much of this has to do with the disdain Hoke has for handlers ...... which most big time HS recruits seem to have these days.

WM, talent or anyone else here with knowledge about this: Is it an issue? Does ufm, Saban, etc. deal with this differently than M appears to be dealing with it?

[iam416]

IMO, most HS recruits do NOT have handlers. It's borderline rare in the Midwest. It's more prevalent in the south, especially in South Florida, but even then I'm not sure if it's a "most" situation -- in fact, I'd bet against it.

So, IMO, the kids that have handlers are mostly in the South. That's a tough pull for M, regardless. For example, straight up, Saban will beat Hoke for a southern recruit nearly all the time. Hoke does a good job in his base area -- Midwest.

And Hoke has really only missed on WR. They have a QB -- they definitely need another in the class of 2014. RBs? I mean, they missed on Dunn, but that wasn't really Hoke's fault. He put most of his eggs in that basket and would have had him if UFM wasn't hired. This season, they have Smith and I think they'll get Green. WRs? Yeah, they've missed. But that's one position. I also think they'll have more to sell WRs when they actually see a pro-style offense in place rather than the mismatched nonsense they've been running.

[Pasadena Blue]

Hoke and co have done a good, but not great, recruiting job ... (though great compared to RRod).

I am not upset on losing Dunn (he's always loved Ohio. etc). ... I think what Jeff is alluding to is missing on guys like a Ty Isaac.

Overall, Hoke has a shown a consistent inability to close the deal on the "skill" positions on both offense and defense ... e.g. can't land real difference makers in the secondary (e.g. Kendall Fuller, Sua Cravens, etc), can't land the stud WR (Treadwell the latest example), can't land a stud pass-rushing DE (e.g. a Joe Mathis). I wasn't alarmed a year ago ... but this will he Hoke's third recruiting class (albeit the first one was only partially his), and he's not shown any signs he can do it.

I think Hoke's Vest-like philosophy can work, but to really be successful, we've got to start landing some playmakers.

[hack]

Well, Dymonte Thomas, but overall the sample size IMO is still way too small to draw those conclusions.

[Jeff Buchanan]

talent, points taken. I'll amend all to some. My gut feeling for your more well informed opinion on recruits from the south are the same and acknowledged.

But PB nails it by adding names to solidify the validity of the position that Hoke is missing on elite players and, it seems, both ways. Yes, I think success on the field in a pro-set offense will change that to some degree. But to turn that sort of thing into consistent success against elite teams regionally and nationally requires some very good player development and coaching. On O, I have serious reservations.

It seems, if you read Seth's great piece on M's history of OL successes at mgoblog, M is doing very well there. Seth predicts awesomeness in 2016. If Funk is as good as he seems to be and some of the OL recruits on board turn out ready to contribute early, 15 could also be pretty decent. But you still have to have some skill players and an OC that knows how to develop and use them behind these great OLs to win the big games. I don't see that now or in the pipeline. Hope I'm wrong about that.

[Rocky Bleier]

It's hard to pull the best playmakers in the country when they're mostly from the south, and go to teams who pay well, put players in the NFL, and win national championships. We haven't even won the Big Ten since...I don't know when.

[hack]

If Funk is as good as he seems to be

Does he really seem good? This year's incredible shrinking OL, despite those guys having time in the system, makes me wonder.

[iam416]

I think building the offensive line was, by far and away, job #1 for Hoke. And he has done that. If Shane Morris works out, the should have a QB and RB behind that line that are very good. Their lack of elite WRs probably only hurts them against the very best teams.

Defensively, I guess now that I look at it, there isn't anyone in the secondary, other than Thomas, that I look at and think, wow, that's a good pull. I'm not particuarly enthralled with that corner from Cass they having coming in, and he's probably their second best secondary recruit. I guess that could be problematic. On offense, you control where the ball goes, by and large, but on defense a weakness will get exploited by good teams.

It's a shame for M, at least, that that Drake Harris kid is so enamored with Sparty. That's an elite athlete in your own state. For that matter, that Webb kid, while a bit unpolished, has lots of athletic ability. Michigan has a handful of really good players in the class of 2014 -- Hoke better get his share.

[Chuck Mallory]

I think Hoke and Co. have done an excellent recruiting job since they've been here. I mean two top 5-7 finishes back to back. Thats great imo.