UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[Jeff Buchanan]

Probably a fair point about Hokeattson .........

It's purely speculative though with regard to a "very different approach" taken by ufm. However, M fans have to acknowledge where they went head to head with a recruit, in this case Reeves, ufm prevailed.

Other factors probably confound the conclusion that ufm recruits better than Hokeattison. IOW it may not have been because of ufm's "different" recruiting approach but rather because, well, Reeves wanted to go to osu, be with his friends or whatever.

If you look at ufm's body of work and where he came from, it is probably safe to say that he has a more aggressive approach with recruits. Now what that might mean, we just don't know. If it means recruiting like Saban is alleged to recruit, I'd have a problem with that but there's not a damn thing M fans can do about it because nothing that Saban does is against the NCAA rules.

It's a problem, though, and one I have some concern about if I'm to be realistic here. The M staff has to close on top recruits unless it wants to play average football compared to osu ..... because you can bet osu is not going to play average football with ufm in c-bus.

[iam416]

I actually think there's not much dispute as to the fact that Hokattison and UFM take different approaches in recruiting. This isn't a qualitative statment wrt to which one is superior. UFM has had a considerable natural advantage in the two "head-to-head" battles (I consider Dunn a HtH b/c, from what I've read, he was almost gone), so those, aside from being too few, say almost nothing about UFM/Hokattison.

But what I mean when I say different approaches is this. UFM is going to offer a ton of kids. Only a handful of those offers will be "commitable". The others are, "hey, we like you, want to keep talking to you, and we'll see where are when we see where are" type offers. UFM will still recruit the latter category hard, build relationships, have them come on OVs or otherwise visit the campus, but they're clearly not Plan A type recruits.

I think Hokattison follow, more generally, Coach Tressel's approach, which was very much more targetted. My guess is, and I could be very wrong is that Hokattison doesn't have to explain to a recruit whether the M offer is "commitable" or "not-commitable". Tressel, as we know, was a pretty good recruiter.

It's a problem, though, and one I have some concern about if I'm to be realistic here. The M staff has to close on top recruits unless it wants to play average football compared to osu ..... because you can bet osu is not going to play average football with ufm in c-bus.

This, by the way, was a standard refrain for OSU fans for 10 years. Tressel had very little success down the stretch with toss-ups. His classes were made well before signing day.

Anyway, at the end of the day, I'm not saying that one way is better than the other. Personally, I've grown accustomed to Coach Tressel's more conservative approach -- and the hyper-aggressive approach by UFM is a bit of a shock.

I do think that UFM and Hokattison are going to continue to land good classes. As I've said in other places, I think the rest of the B10 is nearing a "come to jesus" type moment -- it's time to step up and recruit really well, or get blown out of the water. Hokattison is definitely up for the challenge; I even think Dantonio might be able to scratch and claw and hang on by his fingernails. But the rest of the league -- I dunno. I'm hoping Pelini can get there.

[lineygoblue]

I agree that the finish to the class was disappointing, but I in no way consider it to be a "horrible" finish. For me to go that far I would have to have seen more de-commits. And, for me to be as scared of Meyer as some of you are, I would have had to see him hit Michigan's commitment list hard, and sway some over to his list. That didn't happen.

Dunn was a disappointment, but that was not the fault of Hoke. Dunn always wanted to go to OlieO, and was looking for a reason to stay. Meyer apparently told him that all would be well, and made him believe it. So, he stayed. Its significant to point out that Dunn never de-committed from OlieO. He was only "looking".

When you look at the places where Hoke and Meyer actually went head to head, Hoke did pretty well. Dunn was never ours, so that's a wash. Reeves was a Penn State recruit that ended up following his buddy to OlieO. Where else did Meyer "beat" Hoke? Garnett came down to Stanford and Michigan. Grant came down to BC, Oklahoma and Michigan. Kozan came down to Iowa and Michigan. Pharaoh Brown went to Oregon, not OlieO. Meyer did not get Danny O'Brien. Meyer did not get Schutt.

So, I reiterate my point about this class. Its never been about Hoke hitting the recruiting and "sweeping every star from the sky". Its been about him identifying the areas of need, and filling them. I think he has done a fantastic job of filling the areas of need. Going forward, he has the attention of top talent in areas of need in the class of 2013 as well.

I just think Hoke deserves more than 1 1/2 recruiting seasons to prove himself.

[iam416]

I mean this in the best possible and most complimentary way: Hoke put together a Tressel-type class. A really good backbone of kids who really want to play for M. Really good depth -- maybe lacking a "superstar" recruit (arguably), but, again, the depth is really strong.

[lineygoblue]

That's what I've been trying to say. We desperately needed to improve our talent in the trenches. Hoke has done a marvelous job of fixing that problem. When these kids start filling in the gaps, they're going to be a solid backbone to this team. 99.99% of all football games are won in the trenches. You've got to be solid there, or you're not getting anything done.

But, silly me. I need to acknowledge that Meyer has absolutely destroyed Coach Hoke and Coach Mattison's recruiting efforts, both now and forever. We have no hope. We can never hope to go head to head with the mighty Urban ... we just can't close the deal ...

[iam416]

Heh. It's rarely a zero sum gain. It was with Dunn and Reeves, but, meh, whatever. It's entirely possible that OSU and M could go out in 2013 and get the #1 and #2 classes in the country. So long as Hokattison keeps recruiting well, they'll be fine.

I would suggest, however, making your peace (if you haven't already) with UFM recruiting well. Heh. But I know you have (and I know what you're saying).

[Hannibal]

UFM benefitted tremendously from the Penn State fiasco.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I actually think there's not much dispute as to the fact that Hokattison and UFM take different approaches in recruiting.

Not challenging your judgement at all here but what do you base this on?

Are the offer numbers between and M and osu substantially different to support you conclusion? I don't know. At one time the word on RR was that he had 125 some offers on the table for 20 some scholarships. RR, indeed, cast a wide and large net. No doubt. Never mind that he was casting for 2 and 3 stars and he definitely had the notion he could build competitive teams using his offense with less talent ..... and for the most part I think there is some accuracy in that assessment.

I don't know what M's offer numbers are so, can't compare objectively. I have a hunch the numbers of offers on the table for M compared to osu are not that different. I'm more inclined to conclude it is style as opposed to pure numbers, casting a wide net and so forth.

[whodean]

The good thing about this class is that coach is getting talented players on defense and the O line, the focus for the 2013 class will need to be the offensive skill positions (luckily they have a leg up in that category with QB Shane Morris already committed) and then on defense the secondary will need to be a strong focus.

Good class, probably what, top 10 in the country or so? Just not as good as it looked like it could be after all the early noise.

[lineygoblue]

Meyer is going to recruit well because of where he is. Even if he were a totally lousy football coach, he would still have the attention of top talent in Ohio. There is no way to avoid that.

I still think that Hoke and Mattison will still be able to slide into Ohio and grab some of the better talent and fill areas of need. Schembechler did it. Moeller did it. Carr did it. Rodriguez basically ignored Ohio. Hoke and Mattison have re-established Michigan's presence in Ohio. We'll still "lose" recruits to Meyer, but I also think we'll win some too.

The key is to win the right battles. Neither Meyer nor Hoke has to go in and (as I said earlier) "sweep every star from the sky" in Ohio, in order to have a very good recruiting class. All they have to do is replenish the areas where they have lost players due to graduation and attrition.

For instance, Michigan doesn't need the top QB out of Ohio the next five years, because we already have Robinson coming back, .. Gardner and Bellomy in the fold, and Morris coming in. Why would we have to grab Ohio's top QB every year from now on? Its not going to be an area of need.

But alas ... I guess I must get right with the Mighty Urban ... and how our own lowly and humble Brady Hoke must genuflect to his greatness, .. and hope that a few small scraps fall from the master's table ....

[iam416]

UFM benefitted tremendously from the Penn State fiasco.

True, that was the only way he was going to elevate this class into the top 5 range.

Not challenging your judgement at all here but what do you base this on?

I was actually basing it on the opposite assumption you made -- I think M is a bit more stingy with offers -- I think M probably doesn't differentiate b/t commitable and non-commitable offers. But that's entirely an assumption (based a little on what I've read, too). So, I could be wholly wrong. Heh. Won't be the first time.

[Rocky Bleier]

But, silly me. I need to acknowledge that Meyer has absolutely destroyed Coach Hoke and Coach Mattison's recruiting efforts, both now and forever. We have no hope. We can never hope to go head to head with the mighty Urban ... we just can't close the deal ...

I don't think anyone has said that. Acknowledging that he closed well does not equate to raising a white flag.

[Optimus Prime]

The class is excellent, it would have been nice to close a couple guys late, Diamond will suffice in this regard. Looking forward to these guys developing especially under Mattison, what he was able to accomplish with RR's defense was truly a miracle.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Liney's just being Liney here ...... he understands exactly what you're saying. Nobody is raising the white flag over ufm's arrival in c-bus.

But this is an interesting discussion. Let's go back to the Hays/Schembechler days. Huge recruiting rivalry b/t osu and M that went on under the radar because no body followed it that closely in those days. I don't think either school had a culture of enticing recruits with benefits at that time. I could be wrong. But even if I am and it was going on I'll bet the enticements were about equal all around.

Bo had just about equal footing with Woody. He had a lot of connections in ohio as I recall and have read about. Hoke has a similar relationship with HS coaches in ohio as I understand it. I think those relationships were ignored for three years under Rodriguez but they've been reestablished if I'm reading the news correctly. To what extent, I don't know .... I'll defer to talent here.

Overall, I think things are shaping up nicely for a return of the old style football rivalry renewed with Hoke and UFM.The first two salvos have been fired with Hoke getting the best of osu on the field for the first and ufm demonstrating a nice return of fire with Dunn and Reeves.

I like it.

[lineygoblue]

Rocky - the real point I am trying to make is in the paragraph above the one you quoted.