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  • This is a terrific post at mgo on recruiting that requires you to take a full 90 minutes to both read the OP and then read all the comments and questions on the OP contained there in. It is a great counter-balance to the Wiltfong post that questioned M's recruiting pointing to it's apparent disorganization. The OP's view on that trope is that it is based on Wiltfon'g connection with Jams Fanklin who, he says, is the biggest negative recuriter in the BT if not nationally. Naturally, he is going to neg M's recruiting.

    That is not to say, however, that the OP does not see issues with M's recruiting, the biggest being turn over on the recruiting staff that occurred in year 2 and 3 of JH's tenure and the failure to have a plan in place to quickly replace recruiters who moved on and up in their careers. To that point, Harbaugh brought in a lot of young NFL level evaluaters as recruiters during his first year. These guys all had NFL careers on their minds and left M when an NFL opportunity presented itself. This lead to the appearance that recruits fell through the cracks or charges that M "dropped the ball." That was true and affected the 2016 and 17 classes. Per the OP, Harbaugh, after a (too long) a period of stubborn frustration, corrected it.

    On Bag men: way over emphasized by folks thinking it goes on at 90% of schools and it is the difference between top programs and also rans. It's not and it makes no difference in the big scheme of things. It does happen though. Top recruits are getting paid at some point during the recruiting process, while they are playing or during the transition to the NFL. All the P5 programs are affected by it either knowingly or without their direct knowledge that it's happening, including M. The OP estimates that it is a deciding factor for a recruit in 15-30% of all programs nationally but recruits are much more likely to sign with a program where they have a strong relationship with the guy that is recruiting them and the program fits their skill set and academic objectives.

    There is just a ton of information in this post about why the program is losing to osu, why M isn't getting 315 pound space occupiers that get push on the DL, does JH's quirky character contribute to recruiting (yes, M is negative recruited on that issue by everyone),is Michigan's weather a factor (yes), what is JH's national recruiting like and what areas does he prefer to target (fast growth areas and this explains a pivot out of the mid-west to the SE and South including Texas), much much more.

    The post and comments/questions are super interesting, to me anyway, and a great deal of what he has to say certainly resonates as being spot on with respect to where the program is and why it is where it is. The OP thinks the program is a QB away from being elite and beating osu. Is their a QB in waiting that is that guy. No if fans are counting on McCaffrey or Milton. He thinks Cade McNamarra may be the guy but it's too early for him to hang his hat on. Wants to see more film. The team is really talented and should not be as bad on the road that it is. He lays that on JH not having his teams properly motivated and prepared to win on the road. He also comments on the differences in cultures at schools like Alabama and Clemson compared to M. He opines that JH has yet to develop an identity of what M is and sell it too recruits...... one issue in that area is that M loses big games, has got to win those to turn things around on the recruiting front.

    Bottom line, it's a great read if you're interested in getting past or confirming all the tropes out there on M football and football recruiting.

    I’ve been waiting to do this diary till the offseason to fill the gap and to write something a little bit more substantial. I have experience in the college and pro football ranks, and this has given me the ability to look under the hood of college football.
    Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

    Comment


    • On Bag men: way over emphasized by folks thinking it goes on at 90% of schools and it is the difference between top programs and also rans. It's not and it makes no difference in the big scheme of things. It does happen though. Top recruits are getting paid at some point during the recruiting process, while they are playing or during the transition to the NFL.
      Wait, that can't be. Has anyone on this thread ever pounded the drum for "comfort and relationships"? Like, over and over and over.

      I may have to read that nonsense. And eventually regret it and hate you even more than I already do for suckering me into reading that nonsense.

      BTW, I've been pretty consistent that what happens when kids actually get to a school -- there's no way I'm saying that's completely kosher per the NCAA rules.

      I've always pushed back -- a lot -- on the outright payments to kids to sign with a school. I know that happens, but I think it's fairly rare. I actually don't think anyone in the B10 plays that part of the game. And that's mostly based on the kids everyone sort of knows have their hand out. That's why I always ask for specific potential examples. So, as an example, based on things I've read, Kelee Ringo was gonna get paid. That was part of his deal. Oregon snuck in at the wire and stole him from Georgia. I notice that. Clark Phillips, on the other hand, flips from OSU to Utah. That was a complete comfort and relationships (and possibly younger bro gets schollie deal). But, these kids all have different stories, backgrounds and motivations.

      Whatever.
      Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
      Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

      Comment


      • talent, the best part of that mgo post is contained in the comments section where the OP encourages questions and then answers them. Probably not the be-all-end all on M recruiting and the OP says that stating he is not an insider, does not purport to be but rather has relationships with former players and coaches nationally at the collegiate and pro level, played football himself, admits he was decent not great and knew his sports career was in working for college and NFL programs not playing....... but then, you have a day job ...... I think.
        Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

        Comment


        • "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

          Comment


          • Uh, so how is SW wrong? He's at least partially correct.Man, I don't know about that. The proof is in the pudding. I'd like to see Don Brown's track record on the recruiting trail. What about this new LB coach?

            "A big change from the previous years is that Michigan is one of the first to offer major prospects, something that was not the case 5 years ago." -- this is the Saban/UFM approach. Offer kids really early with the understanding that there's a difference between an offer and OFFER. M was definitely behind the curve on this. neither does OSU. Or, IMO, any other B10 school.

            "Today's recruiting is very different from the past decade. It's much harder for players to fall through the cracks nowadays, but it still happens. Back in the day, Tom Lemming would be a great resource because he would be talking to tons of HS coaches and know what players were getting talked up and what ones are flying under the radar. Now every program has a staff in place full of technology that has made them into professional scouting departments." -- this is the thing -- recruiting rankings are so much better today than they were in 2000. The knowledge base is exponentially larger. OSU and UAT offers don't bump kids up -- that's a little crazy - most of the time everyone knows that a kid can play (whether they're a 4* or 5*). Sometimes they miss, but even then kids have so many opportunities to show their skills they can rise quickly (see, CJ Stroud).

            "I'd love for Michigan to take the Clemson model and apply it up here. We can make the bagman jokes, but from everyone I've ever heard tell me that the culture up there is second to none. There's no reason Harbaugh can't build the Stanford of the East or a Northern Clemson. In that I mean when a kid gets offered from one of the schools there's a lot of weight behind it. Stanford offers a QB and they commit. Clemson had a future star LB beg for an offer and accepted it on the spot." -- Lots and lots of truth to this. Dabo is also a waaaaay better recruiter than HARBAUGH!!! And he mentions the "Clemson Model" a lot -- but that Model is now bringing in 5* beasts. His 2020 class is stupid good -- and way better, IMO, than mixing in a bunch of 2* no names.

            "Man I really wish that were the case, but OSU has an infrastructure in place that they're going to recruit like banshees no matter who's the coach. With that being said, Urban was able to take teams with average QB's and make them elite. He's one of the best coaches of all time. Time will tell with Day, but he's not Urban and he's has had 2 first-round QB's. Let's see what he does when he doesn't have generational talent at that position after next year." -- not exactly recruiting related, but one may argue that the reason Day had 2 first-round QBs is because of Ryan Day.

            "What Michigan fans didn't/don't realize is that Urban was the best program builder. Better than Saban IMO." -- 100% agreed.

            "
            I can tell you for a fact that the previous regime cared very much about recruiting rankings, and look where that got us." -- M's most talented, best team (2016) since 2006?

            "You get the QB and that's when things take off. I'd take 2 a class until I found a guy that I love. I don't care if it chases off the other ones. That's the new reality in college football." -- It's obvious, but it's worth the quote. Of course, then you end up with Haskins vs Burrow and if you've done your job correctly, they're both really good. This year it's CJ Stroud and Jack Miller.

            "Day's only really recruited for one full cycle so excuse me while I wait to see a longer sample size than to anoint him as this amazing recruiter. I've heard he's a little robotic and doesn't connect well with every kid (not too different from Harbaugh)." -- I'm not sure the 2021 class is going to this guy any favors. heh

            "I also have to mention that weather plays a huge role in recruiting." -- 100% bullshit

            "I think the biggest takeaway is that recruiting rankings aren't really that useful." -- Just no. So wrong.


            Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
            Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

            Comment


            • It's impossible to reiterate this enough.

              Now, identifying talent, getting the right kids into your program and all that stuff -- there you have some different approaches (I prefer the organizational approach).

              But, closing on kids? Getting them to commit. That's comfort and relationships almost every time.
              Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
              Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

              Comment


              • So, you liked some of the post/comments/answers to questions, not all of it?

                I think you know recruiting, along with JD and WM here, way better than I do. So, I tend to just nod my head at a lot of the stuff in the OP's post.

                Appreciate your review.
                Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

                Comment


                • Yeah, I mean it was worth the read.
                  Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                  Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                  Comment


                  • So apparently we just picked up 2* WR Kyle McNamara. Little brother of QB Cade McNamara.

                    Comment


                    • According to 247, he's listed as having an Ohio State offer. . Amazing we beat them out.

                      Comment


                      • That's a bummer. Reading the Mgo board on him, he sounds very speedy and exciting. I like speedy and exciting.
                        Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                        Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                        Comment


                        • If you were following this and if you give a rats ass, Devrey Hamilton, the Stanford grad transfer OL, signed with Duke. He was a hopeful space filler for the OL. Once recruited by M, he chose Stanford, got a degree and will get another coveted degree from Duke.

                          Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

                          Comment


                          • I've learned from M experts that the OL is in great shape and will be a position of strength in 2020. So, no big deal.
                            Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                            Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                            Comment


                            • You just can't stand it that someone from mgo put up a meaningful argument in support of the hypothesis that M's OL would be fine in 2020.

                              TBF, both sides made good points (separating the childish mgo shit-posts). I thought it was one of the better exchanges involving two sides of an argument I've seen at mgo, minus the shit posts, of course!
                              Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

                              Comment


                              • Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                                Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                                Comment

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