UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[iam416]

[hack]

A few days ago you were arguing that not all players demand money at the recruitment stage, in order to argue that OSU doesn't buy all its players. Today's discussion apparently demands a different and contradictory form of rhetoric.

[iam416]

I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Perhaps you don't understand mocking the "M Man" argument that goes "if Georgia and OSU offered the recruit must be on the take."

I don't care.

I do care that CJ Stroud sure as fuck won't end up at M. And, of course, the only reason is won't is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[hack]

I believe you.

[Hannibal]

Talent suddenly became hypersensitive to this argument again for some reason.

[WingsFan]

Stroud is in attendance at Chrysler, fans chanted his name. Probably playing us like Harris did.

[lineygoblue]

Stroud is in attendance at Chrysler, fans chanted his name. Probably playing us like Harris did.

.... and Clarett .... and Pryor ... and Gholston ....

But we have to keep trying.

[froot loops]

Payola is happening in CFB. You two can deny all you want or shout show me the evidence.

I have no idea who benefits and who doesn't. The point is payola, when it occurs in CFB, distorts the concept of fairness in sports. It should be eliminated to the extent possible.

This takes us right to enforcement. For reasons already discussed, it's not happening and won't given the inadequacy of the NCAA to do so and the implications of the black market comparison made earlier.

Look, it took the RICO Act to root out organized crime and clean that mess up. During the Weber fiasco, Martin got caught up in an FBI investigation of illegal gambling and money laundering. His cooperation with the NCAA gave them the ammo to sanction M (something the U had already bent over for).

It would take circumstances something like this across the entirety of CFB to uncover evidence of Payola. Until that happens, it's going to be a free for all with NIL leading the way to more or less legal payments. Get out the money cannon!

Burn that strawman down, I have never said it doesn't exist. What I will say is the accusations against other schools by Michigan fans is a never ending form of entertainment. The cognitive dissonance required to evoke the Ed Martin case to accuse others of cheating is staggering.

These arguments seem to rear their head every year right around this time. Has anyone ever given it thought that Harbs just isn't a natural recruiter? NFL coaches tend to suffer in this regard, they hate the rubber chicken circuit. Maybe all the sideshows like satellite camps, European vacations and signing with the Stars were shortcuts to escape the true grind of recruiting.

[Hannibal]

Burn that strawman down, I have never said it doesn't exist. What I will say is the accusations against other schools by Michigan fans is a never ending form of entertainment. The cognitive dissonance required to evoke the Ed Martin case to accuse others of cheating is staggering.

You don't seem to understand the argument vis-a-vis Ed Martin.

[froot loops]

I certainly do understand the argument and I think it's laughable.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Froot, for me, the arguments I advance in support of payola being in play within CFB have nothing to do with the loss to osu. They predate that and are long held. WRT the osu game, osu has more talent than M. That's clear. How the gap became so large can be debated IMO; others here don't but the gap that developed during the tressel/ufm/day period and the win rate for osu overall makes it tempting to argue there's cheating involved. OTH, that it's more likely tressel/ufm and their staffs are just way better at recruiting than BH/JH and their staffs is a strong argument against the position that osu is cheating.

Certainly, the argument that payola is a player on the CFB scene does pop up after such a loss. While I lean to the position that it's happening, I don't assign advantage or disadvantage to any single team because it's happening. The problem as I see it is that it's presence distorts the concept of fairness in collegiate athletics not that it is the cause of JH's 0-5 record v. osu. Besides, fans can't control it and neither can the NCAA, coaches or ADs so, move on. It's like bad officiating. It's going to happen. Play through it. for now. It would be nice if, after recognizing payola is happening, that the NCAA Board of Governors would work to mitigate the implications of it by other means - get it above board and out in the open ..... e.g., can arcane amateurism rules and pay the players.

The Ed Martin reference that I used wasn't adequately explained WRT how it applied in my argument. So, I can see why you laughed at it. The point I was trying to make is that if it had not been for Ed Martin being charged for a federal crime (illegal gambling and money laundering) and assuming M had stonewalled like it could have, nothing would have come of the allegations that M basketball players took money from him. The U and NCAA had conducted earlier investigations and concluded that there was insufficient evidence to proceed on the basis that NCAA violations had occurred.

It was the powers of federal investigators that revealed the complex schemes that Martin and Malvo used to funnel something like $600,000 dollars to M basketball players. The NCAA had no clue and while I think the U knew some of the details, acted on those with self imposed sanctions but as for legal standing, the view was there was insufficient evidence to recommend charges be filed against any players or coaches. Martin was charged, and so was Malvo, Martin's wife and a host of others but the crimes they were charged for all involved illegal gambling and money laundering. It was the details of that illegal activity, uncovered by the investigative powers of a grand jury that revealed the scope of the NCAA violations and criminal activity within the M basketball program.

Without those federal investigative powers, M could have skated if they had stonewalled and that's a different story. What finally got the NCAA to act (the U had already acted) was the plea deal that Martin made with the feds that included cooperation with the NCAA. Once Martin, already charged with crimes, spilled the beans to the feds and the NCAA in his plea deal, game over. Weber, his family, other players and their families among others were charged with federal crimes.

I'll say it again: No federal investigation, no plea deal, the NCAA would not have had the goods or felt compelled to impose sanctions on M.

So, it's going to be like that with payola. I think it's wide spread contrary to the opinions of AA and talent who don't. We aren't going to agree on perceptions. There's no available evidence that the NCAA has with it's limited investigative powers to act. The same circumstance exited for the M basketball program in the Martin case until the feds got involved. There would have to be some parallel federal investigation, like there was in the Martin case, to nail a program or programs for providing impermissible benefits to players. Even then, it would not be easy, given how most of these benefits are provided, to prove that program officials (coaches, ADs, registered boosters) were involved.

Pay the players. Get payments to players above board. For M, get out the money cannon.

[*JD*]

Talent suddenly became hypersensitive to this argument again for some reason.

Maybe because of the payoff to Chase Young?

[WM Wolverine]

Buckeyes don't buy recruits but those recruits notice their current players don't have to pay for nice things.

[hack]

Maybe because of the payoff to Chase Young?

It was more likely that one than the payoffs to Terelle Pryor, Troy Smith or Maurice Clarett.

[Wellington_beefhouser]