UM Football Recruiting - by WM Wolverine

[hack]

Either you're with us or against us.

[iam416]

I'm with Detroit Dan and Hannibal, but against "Jeff" Buchanan, "hack" and WingsFan.

[hack]

Dan and Hannibal must be very pleased to find themselves in alliance with you.

[iam416]

Dan's extremely happy and cloyingly upbeat while Hannibal is bitterly disappointed. Cabinet of rivals.

[hack]

Dan surely has a very compelling argument as to why your team has as much brainpower as my team.

[Hannibal]

Hudson and Solomon weren't processed. They didn't get along with the coaches or they just didn't like them. I don't know about the rest. It's possible that these guys process themselves once they realize that they are never going to see the field. That makes sense for Kurt Taylor, but that definitely wasn't the case with Hudson and Solomon. They were both slated to be starters next year. I think that in Harbaugh's system, everyone is pushed equally regardless or talent or depth chart. The coaches do not treat a future starter at a thin position differently than they treat the fourth string guy. Hudson and Solomon didn't like it. I'm not in position to comment on whether they are justified in their opinions.

Unhappy superstars must present a huge dilemma for coaches. There's a strong argument that you damage yourself by driving a five-star guy out of the program as part of an effort to enforce accountability. But the alternative is the "country club" approach that creates a complacent culture. Whatever is happening in the Michigan locker room is not good. 62-39 is about a lot more than scheme. The effort in that game was badly lacking. Based on these transfers and how much some of the players did not like the coaches, I am starting to wonder if some of the guys simply quit on Harbaugh for the OSU game. It certainly would explain stuff like how one of the best pass rushing defenses in the history of our program couldn't penetrate a mediocre offensive line all day long. I wonder if it also explains the Rashan Gary saga and why the guy will leave Michigan as one of the most disappointing recruits of all time. I have a lot of respect for the coaches who can get a lot of performance out of their players without constant turnover and blood purges like what we saw with RichRod and like what we have seen with the 2017 recruiting class. It might end up rivaling our 2010 class in the attrition department when all is said and done. And like the RichRod years, we are losing guys that we can't afford to lose.

I am not even a little bit excited about our 2019 class despite it being on a trajectory to finish #1 in the B1G. I was excited about our crazy 2017 wide receiver haul and not a single one of them has made an impact. Black came back from his broken foot and he was still invisible. Judging by the one deep pass thrown to him in the PSU game, it wasn't because he wasn't back up to speed. That is absolutely epic coaching failure. With the exception of JBB and Chase Winovich, this year was all Harbaugh's players. No championship. No victory over a vulnerable OSU team. Another bowl loss soon to come. Possibly a blowout if the team's mental state is what it was for the OSU game. Another failed season, with our only hope of a future championship being that Dantonio retires, Franklin goes to the NFL, and Day turns out to be a crappy coach.

[iam416]

Dan surely has a very compelling argument as to why your team has as much brainpower as my team.

Dan's strength has always been making the self-evident case. No one does it better and with more gusto.

[hack]

Dan's enthusiasm is a crucial leading indicator.

[iam416]

There's a strong argument that you damage yourself by driving a five-star guy out of the program as part of an effort to enforce accountability. But the alternative is the "country club" approach that creates a complacent culture.

Somehow you have to figure that out how to handle very talented players or you won't be very talented. Alabama does it. Ohio State does it. Clemson does it. It's on HARBAUGH!!!! to do it. And if he can't figure out how to manage a program loaded with very talented players then he's doomed.

I am not even a little bit excited about our 2019 class despite it being on a trajectory to finish #1 in the B1G. I was excited about our crazy 2017 wide receiver haul and not a single one of them has made an impact. Black came back from his broken foot and he was still invisible. Judging by the one deep pass thrown to him in the PSU game, it wasn't because he wasn't back up to speed. That is absolutely epic coaching failure.

I think the 2019 class has some things to be excited about, but it certainly doesn't blow me away. It's a numbers class more than anything with a few real gems. I agree with you about the WRs. I actually think they're good, but they are underutilized, almost criminally so.

[hack]

Unhappy superstars must present a huge dilemma for coaches. There's a strong argument that you damage yourself by driving a five-star guy out of the program as part of an effort to enforce accountability. But the alternative is the "country club" approach that creates a complacent culture. Whatever is happening in the Michigan locker room is not good. 62-39 is about a lot more than scheme. The effort in that game was badly lacking. Based on these transfers and how much some of the players did not like the coaches, I am starting to wonder if some of the guys simply quit on Harbaugh for the OSU game. It certainly would explain stuff like how one of the best pass rushing defenses in the history of our program couldn't penetrate a mediocre offensive line all day long. I wonder if it also explains the Rashan Gary saga and why the guy will leave Michigan as one of the most disappointing recruits of all time.

The last sentence there is where you lost me, but what comes before it is something worth considering. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something intengible spoiling the mix. It may be as simple as OSU is now a mental block, and the players expect to get beat and play like it once the early-game adrenaline rush subsides. Or it may be something bigger. I don't know.

As for Gary, well, it was clear that he never learned to stop chasing himelf out of plays. Which is one reason why I wonder about the position coaching and mentioned that Hoke as DL coach would probably be an improvement. Someone reportedly so dedicated an intelligent about the game never matured out of puppy energy? Someone who came as a DT and graduated with 5.5 sacks on a team that has in recent years turned unheralded DTs like Glasgow, Hurst and Henry into NFL players? It's something to consider, IMO. I'll take Hoke turning those kinds of players into stars over the mighty mighty effort to bring Gary onboard to a Mattison-coached position unit that's gotten slightly less effective in each of the past three years. The DL pipeline has gone from brimming in '16 to pretty empty right now.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Talent must be defeated.

[hack]

You must be mistaken for thinking this is one of the threads in which your comments are welcome. Here is a list of those threads:

[Hannibal]

The last sentence there is where you lost me, but what comes before it is something worth considering. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something intengible spoiling the mix. It may be as simple as OSU is now a mental block, and the players expect to get beat and play like it once the early-game adrenaline rush subsides. Or it may be something bigger. I don't know.

As for Gary, well, it was clear that he never learned to stop chasing himelf out of plays. Which is one reason why I wonder about the position coaching and mentioned that Hoke as DL coach would probably be an improvement. Someone reportedly so dedicated an intelligent about the game never matured out of puppy energy? Someone who came as a DT and graduated with 5.5 sacks on a team that has in recent years turned unheralded DTs like Glasgow, Hurst and Henry into NFL players? It's something to consider, IMO. I'll take Hoke turning those kinds of players into stars over the mighty mighty effort to bring Gary onboard to a Mattison-coached position unit that's gotten slightly less effective in each of the past three years. The DL pipeline has gone from brimming in '16 to pretty empty right now.

Gary was a huge disappointment. I think that a lot of people are in denial about it and have come up with total bullshit excuses as to why you rarely saw #3 in opposing backfields ("he was always being double teamed, etc") At any rate, the guy was supposed to be a one-man wrecking crew. The most heralded recruit in the history of the program. An instant impact, can't-miss guy. Three years of Suh. He was supposed to be better than a Bosa and even Clowney (who got 13 sacks in his sophomore year, more than Gary for his whole career). Instead, he ended up about on par with Ryan van Bergen. Definitely not bad, but he will leave Michigan without having made any impact.

[hack]

That's worded too strongly for me, but the essence of it is accurate. Not a huge disappointment to me, but we definitely don't have very much at all to show for nabbing a guy who was the first consensus top-ranked recruit by all the services to come along in at least six or seven years, if I recall the hype metrics correctly. You'd think at that level of potential differencemaker you'd get somebody who would put his imprint on at least one game in his career. He was supposedly so competitive and such a hard worker. He is obviously incredibly gifted. He was definitely better than his numbers, but how that kind of a player with the kind of defensive playmakers he had around him just sorta came and went without much fanfare is really something to think about. Especially in the wider context of the DL getting worse three years in a row and seeing the prospect pipeline empty out over that time. Say what you will about Hoke, and there is so much that's negative to say, but he handed Harbaugh a DL that was about to explode into a historically good one, and the outlook now is a ton more negative for that position group than when Hoke was here.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I made a post in the Peach Bowl thread that pertains to the issues discussed here of why guys are leaving, transferring or skipping bowl games. http://www.detroitlionsforum.com/for...84#post1617584

I do think there are issues with playing time, scheme and managing a 5* or even a talent laden roster that fall on Harbaugh. I also agree with talent that he has to figure out how to manage rosters like that. More dynamic schemes on offense could help and I'm all about that.

There is, however, this fundamental thing rearing it's ugly head involving push-back from highly skilled football players over what are fundamentally classic macro-economics labor and management issues. Players can only be fed cake for so long before they bring torches and pitch forks to the gates ...... some of them are doing that now by nursing injuries, leaving early, sitting out bowl games and so forth. That is a problem that tends to work against anything on the micro level we might think Harbaugh should be or might be trying to do within the program.