Around the Big Ten

[THE_WIZARD_]

Well they should probably be in the Big East now that they are a basketball only program...heh

[Optimus Prime]

Re-brand them too, the Penn State Sodomites.

[iam416]

You can talk all day about the legalities of this Talent...but in the end the NCAA did the right thing.

I talk about the "rule of law" because it matters. I think we're always most vulnerable to horrible precedents when there is overwhelming public sentiment for the "right thing" or the the thing that let's us sleep at night.

But, look, as I said, I'm generally not a slippery slope guy. I don't think this is necessarily Pandora's Box and I do think this type of power play by the NCAA will likely be limited. Further, the NCAA ultimately derives its power from the Universities who can, and have, told them to fuck off when they were being ridiculous. I still don't trust the NCAA. I still think this vastly exceeds their authority. But I'm not overly we're on the road of no return.

[Ghengis Jon]

I believe osu holds the trademark on that moniker, but would probably lease it out to PSU for a royalty fee.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I talk about the "rule of law" because it matters. I think we're always most vulnerable to horrible precedents when there is overwhelming public sentiment for the "right thing" or the the thing that let's us sleep at night.

But, look, as I said, I'm generally not a slippery slope guy. I don't think this is necessarily Pandora's Box and I do think this type of power play by the NCAA will likely be limited. Further, the NCAA ultimately derives its power from the Universities who can, and have, told them to fuck off when they were being ridiculous. I still don't trust the NCAA. I still think this vastly exceeds their authority. But I'm not overly we're on the road of no return.

Well PSU can always choose to secede from the NCAA. Last I checked they are a member institution. This isn't a court of law...it is an association. Get off the "legal" angle of this. It's not much different if you get disbarred for something not "specifically" in the bylaws of bar association...but they deem the action to be so egregious that they boot you...or punish you.

[hack]

The Big Ten has other cellar dwellers. In the long run, PSU is probably gonna recover and hopefully be an asset to the conference again.

[iam416]

It is. It's remarkably different.

"This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried," the former chair said. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct."


The chair said that the NCAA was dealing with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations. "The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etcetera," the chair said.

"This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with."


The NCAA, the chair said, had never gotten involved in punishing schools for criminal behavior.


"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations," the former chair said. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work in the athletic department.

"This is an important precedent. And it should be taken with extreme care."

If the state bar took unprecendented action against an attorney for actions outside its rules, that attorney would have a very good cause of action against the state bar.

But, whatever. It's clear the masses wanted a pound of flesh and didn't much care if the NCAA had the actual authority to extract that pound or not. It's nothing new. It occurs throughout history with remarkable frequency, though often not as innocuous as this particular power grab.

[THE_WIZARD_]

So is it safe to assume Talent is on the side of the pedophiles?

[Mike]

But, look, as I said, I'm generally not a slippery slope guy. I don't think this is necessarily Pandora's Box and I do think this type of power play by the NCAA will likely be limited. Further, the NCAA ultimately derives its power from the Universities who can, and have, told them to fuck off when they were being ridiculous. I still don't trust the NCAA. I still think this vastly exceeds their authority. But I'm not overly we're on the road of no return.

I think the slippery slope angle has been largely overblown in this case. People may have thought the same thing after SMU was handed the death penalty - that the NCAA shutting down programs would become common or they'd at least use it occasionally. Turns out that SMU ended up being Japan in this instance - the lone recipient of the ultimate punishment which has never been used again. I view the current PSU case much the same way, a one-time perfect storm situation where the severity of the crimes warranted a blurring of the lines of jurisdiction (if, like yourself, you believe the NCAA had no legal grounds to act in this case). Children were molested for over a decade because Penn State officials wanted to protect the image of the football program. Seems fitting to me that you punish the thing they loved above all else.

It's also quite probable that PSU got hit as hard as they did because the NCAA knows they have a reputation for going easy on major programs. Alabama was a lying cheating mess and won a national championship while on probation for massive academic fraud, they let Cam Newton's dad collect $200K for his services, they tried to stiffen on USC but they're humming right along as if nothing happened and they gave ohio a slap on the wrist and allowed them to simultaneously employ two coaching staffs. I'd love to see penalties similar to Penn State's be applied to rampant cheaters who gain an advantage on the field and win championships as a result. The only way to change behavior is to make the punishment much worse than the advantage gained. If Auburn had been nuked into oblivion after the Cam Newton scandal, coaches and ADs would stand up and take notice. Instead its business as usual.

[Tony G]

We will see on the issue of pandora's box. I do believe that power tends to be one of the commodities that is seldom, if ever, shrank back after its use. You may get away with a few lackadaisical custodians for a while but someone always comes along, eager to use it, that wants to take the tiger out for a walk. (I'm not sure how many metaphors I mixed in there but that's my limit for the day)

[hack]

Yes, the horse is outta the bag now and there's no point in closing the barn panDoora now.

[Tony G]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfLYO3F4D78"]Recruiting - YouTube[/ame]

[Hannibal]

Recruiting - YouTube

Heh.

Brewster -- gone
RichRod -- gone
Zook -- gone
Poopypants -- gone
Cheater -- gone
Lynch -- gone
Tiller -- gone

Only guys left out of that bunch are Fitz, Meathead, Mr. Constipation Face, and the Puntasaurus.

[Rob F]

the Puntasaurus? Ferentz?

I must have missed something on that nickname...

[WM Wolverine]

re: vacated wins...

The team that lost, still receives a loss. PSU just supposedly didn't win all those games.