Around the Big Ten

[Tony G]

I agree they can be prosecuted/punished in at least 3 arenas. I think the Crim/Civ will be more than sufficient.

[UMStan White]

"This scandal is largely the failure of a university administration, not it's football program. "


What fucking rock are you living under? The whole cover-up was to protect the football program, not the university administration. Have you read ANYTHING that the Freeh report has actually written? The only morons defending the PSU football program against NCAA violations are idiots like you that are fans of corrupt football programs! How could anything that has come out have been the result of anything other than a lack of institutional control? PSu will be hammered by civil liability but the University just raised over 280 million dollars in donations in the last year--the second greatest amount in the school's history. Only two administrators face criminal liability. Stupid arguments such as "the current players and staff have done nothing wrong" is the same stupid argument made by every single fan of any school that faces NCAA sanctions. If the Big Ten and the NCAA don't step up and impose severe sanctions against Penn State under the phony argument that "it's a matter for the civil and criminal courts" then they are as complicit in the cover-up as is Penn State itself. I can't think of a worse stain upon a football program in my life than the proven allegations that the football administration allowed a sexual deviant to abuse young boys for over a decade because oft he fear of what doing the right thing may have done to the football program's "reputation". Once again i don't really expect an OSU man to understand those implications. After all. you're University is led by the same attitude as Gee showed when he said "My goodness!~ Fire JIm Tressel? I hope he doesn't fire me!"

[Jeff Buchanan]

The CoPO wants a lynching, not fair and dispassionate justice.

While you may be right about the CoPo and the risks of acting too quickly out of knee jerk reactions, I'd offer that the knee jerk reaction should have been called into question before the Freeh report but not after its release.

Freeh had 3 months for careful consideration. The report is a masterpiece of investigative leg work and correct conclusion drawing from the statements gathered and facts ascertained despite what Jay Paterno has to say about it.

No, the best course of action here is for the Board of Trustees to start kicking some ass, the sooner the better, and for the NCAA to enforce the standards for ethical behavior and institutional control they have set. I'd add for the benefit of dsl, you have to be blind or utterly stupid to not read the two documents I posted that define unethical behavior for the NCAA and then go on to explain how rule breaking (in this case acting unethically) sets the stage for LOIC.

For the PSU Board of Trustees to announce yesterday that they are going to wait to act until the "right teaching moment" is reached and discuss with the community the "sensitivites" about what to do with Paterno's legacy shows exactly why Sandusky continued to molest children on PSU's campus for over a decade and under the noses of a lot of people who knew about it.

IMO, if the Board does not act forcefully and definitively within the next two weeks, provide public appologies for their failures, and take visible actions to support the victims, the B10 and/or the NCAA should jump in with both feet, pistols blazing.

Do I expect any of that to happen? No. Which is why I think this is an interesting study in the very damaging aspects of institutional behavior.

[UMStan White]

"Actually you are on the wrong, i.e. knee jerk, side of this one. It's a criminal and civil matter. "

No it isn't It's much greater than that. Civil liability cannot restore the damage done to Sandusky's victims. it can only compensate them with money. Only two administrators face criminal charges.. The Freeh report makes it clear that the steps taken by the University were to protect the football program. The Big Ten and the NCAA must step up and impose a penalty that makes sure other programs don't put the "reputation" of its sports program above the safety of victims abused with their knowledge. People seem to be forgetting that that is all Penn State was worried about--it's "reputation" Not the integrity of its program, not the integrity of the University not the integrity of its employees- just it's "reputation". To suggest that those who demand that the University pay for this horrendous cover-up display a "knee-jerk reaction" is not only wrong but shows as aware a lack of concern for the full extent of the harm committed by the University. Once has to understand two points--first and foremost any legal entity is liable for the acts of its employees and second these were acts of the highest ranking employees in the University. The Big ten has an opportunity to show that it truly believes in the virtues it espouses. Failing to act only proves that Delaney and others only care about the bottom line. If PSU had any integrity (and this cover-up of the worse scandal in the history of college football proves they don't) they would fall on their sword as they shout their hollow motto of "Success with Honor".

[UMStan White]

"despite what Jay Paterno has to say about it."

Jay Paterno is the Ron Zigler of the PSU administration. (for all you younger people google it)

[UMStan White]

"The CoPO wants a lynching, not fair and dispassionate justice."

Absolutely wrong! The Court of public opinion wants accountability not a cover-up and a white wash.

[iam416]

What NCAA rules were broken. Don't just say again and again how this demonstrates "lack of institutional control". LOIC refers to a failure to follow NCAA regulations.

This. Again. Until someone identifes a specific rule that was broken by Penn State, the LOIC is poppycock. Again, it is LOIC vis-a-vis NCAA rules, not some general, amorphous LOIC.

The whole public opinion thing is entirely predictable. The facts are so maddening that most don't give a rat's ass how or why PSU gets killed, just kill them. The masses are willing to look the other way, abandon the "rule of law" and endorse whatever half-ass reasoning might work to nuke the bad guys. It's an entirely precedented reaction by our society (and lots others). But there are proper ways to levy proper punishment against the individuals responsible and against the institution. The NCAA is not that outlet. Period. Double period.

DSL's analogy about the English department is very good. No one, I mean no one would be demanding that the University sanction or shut down it's English department. The NCAA would have zero authority to do anything. But the individuals and institution would still be subject to the applicable laws and receive the same hammering. The idea that because this happened in the AD it ought to change the analysis is silly. And the silliness of it all is best highlighted by the fact that the potential NCAA punishment would largely hit those who didn't do anything wrong.

I don't doubt that the NCAA will grandstand nor that masses don't give a shit how or why PSU gets killed. But it won't change my opinion that there is a right and wrong way to get Penn State.

[UMStan White]

As quoted by the legal advisor to SI:

Penn State might also take a similar position in dealing with the NCAA, which is investigating whether Penn State lacked institutional control. There has been much debate as to whether the NCAA should punish Penn State, but it is clearly authorized to do so and could even impose the "death penalty," whereby the Penn State football team would be shut down for at least one year. Articles 2.4 and 10.1 of the NCAA constitution command ethical conduct on behalf of coaches and others associated with athletic programs, and 2.4 expansively states, "These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz20cQfpImr

So to you talent and DSL once again you show your total ignorance when it comes to recognizing corruption within the ranks of second class Universities. But then what would one expect from fans of Oshitu

[UMStan White]

"the potential NCAA punishment would largely hit those who didn't do anything wrong."

As I aptly pointed out before--the mantra of every fan of every school that gets hit with NCAA sanctions. I mean, c'mon.either come up with something original or save the bandwidth. Pathetic. Purely pathetic. More evidence of the FEAR!

[iam416]

I'm guessing no one will identify a specific NCAA rule -- i.e., paying athletes, gambling, cheating in class. The only thing anyone can point to is, as I've already noted, the ridiculously broad catchall "ethical conduct" provision. What's ethical? Whatever the NCAA says, apparently, since this would apply to unspecified conduct.

Blank check. All the name of a lynching -- actually, the lynching and destruction will already happen -- all the name of salting the earth. The willingness of people to abandon the rule of law when it suits them never ceases to name me.

[UMStan White]

"But it won't change my opinion that there is a right and wrong way to get Penn State."

That's because you refuse to acknowledge the NCAA has the legal authority to trash the program. God, I hope your clients get better legal research than you show you're capable of handling, especially at the rates your charging! Smell the FEAR!

[Tony G]

To suggest that those who demand that the University pay for this horrendous cover-up display a "knee-jerk reaction" is not only wrong but shows as aware a lack of concern for the full extent of the harm committed by the University

PSU will pay very dearly for this. in civil and criminal court.

Absolutely wrong! The Court of public opinion wants accountability not a cover-up and a white wash

You are way off base if you think that's what I have suggested. That is the language of the knee jerk reaction at its worst. PSU is going to be held accountable in court and I heartily endorse that venue. Don't confuse thinking the NCAA doesn't belong in the case with being a PSU apologist.

[iam416]

Anywho, that's my opinion. For the rule of law; against a massive power grab by the NCAA. I'll let the masses carry on with their witch hunt and ill-founded reasoning.

Keep up the good fight, Tony. You're right.

[UMStan White]

Only because you stick your head in the sand and refuse to understand that the NCAA has the power under its bylaws to act. But then again, does anyone expect anything more from an Oshitu grad?

[Tony G]

Here's the mission statement of the NCAA. Tell me where this case is related to it.

Our purpose is to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount.