Around the Big Ten

[Tony G]

I know there's a legal case for it. I don't think this is the intent of Title IX though.

[hack]

I appreciate the desire for specificity and appropriateness. My own instinct is whatever works to curb institutional power. We simply can't go on with a society in which individuals lie to hide or protect the terrible things their employers are responsible for.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Well, yes, obviously ........

WTF do you propose to do about this sort of thing .... and I'll narrow this down ..... in CFB.

Yes, i have consuemd 3/4 of one martini.

[Optimus Prime]

Loaded, fueled, ready to depart at 7am tomorrow morning from Miami Beach Marina.

Everyone has arrived, stowed their gear and have gathered for an evening cocktail party that is sure to turn into Oktoberfest! Should prove to be one hell of trip, can't wait!

Cheers

F*ck OSU!

[iam416]

The NCAA has zero business in this. Zero. Penn State will get everything it deserves.

[Optimus Prime]

No Tropical Cyclone activity in the Atlantic but NOAA predicts heavy seas.

[entropy]

So far, PSU is planning on remodeling the showers, but leaving joepa's statue.

[Mike]

The NCAA has zero business in this. Zero. Penn State will get everything it deserves.

I was torn on this until yesterday. Now I'm in the "burn that fucker down" camp. PSU won't get the death penalty or be expelled from the Big Ten but something needs to be done on the athletic front in addition to criminal and civil courts. The fact that the head football coach and athletic director were central figures in the cover up moves this scandal under the NCAA's umbrella. The slippery slope argument may be applied as a reason to oppose NCAA involvement but the magnitude of the crimes committed outweigh any restraint that I (and I'm guessing many others) may have once had.

[Mike]

Also, do they have any good recruits we can poach? Or is this the wrong thread for that?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Short of killing Penn State's program permanently, there is nothing the NCAA can do that would equal what's going to happen to them in civil suits and the cost of rehabilitating their image. That's assuming that the NCAA even has jurisidiction over an issue like this, and I think I agree with Talent that they do not.

[iam416]

I understand the sentiment, Mike, but I still say no way the NCAA should touch this because of what I'd call its complete lack of jurisdiction. I think the NCAA lacks authority because it is completely unneeded. The wrongdoers are going to get hammered. Penn State is in a world of real hurt. NCAA sanctions generally address arcane stuff that if they didn't care about no one else would. So, they're needed in that regard.

I want to see PSU burn for this, and they will. But the NCAA has no business lighting any of the matches.

Also, do they have any good recruits we can poach? Or is this the wrong thread for that?

LOL. Your class is full -- well, when Treadwell finally signs up (maybe 1 more?)!

[Jeff Buchanan]

Short of killing Penn State's program permanently, there is nothing the NCAA can do that would equal what's going to happen to them in civil suits and the cost of rehabilitating their image. That's assuming that the NCAA even has jurisidiction over an issue like this, and I think I agree with Talent that they do not.

The NCAA is GOING to act under the rules defining LOIC or the ethical conduct standards.

If ever there was an example of LOIC, having the head coach and AD allow a pedophile to molest children for 12 years in PUS's football facilities, this is it. I don't think Curley can avoid a finding of unethical conduct either.

The criminal and civil penalties PSU, Spanier and Curley will suffer are immaterial to the NCAA's role in upholding and enforcing it's own rules if they are to have any credibility at all. Precedent can be found in any number of ways but two of them are the double penalties any college student may suffer by violating the student conduct code while committing a criminal act off campus in a separate police jurisdiction or a member of the armed services being found guilty of a violation of the UCMJ as well as local, state or federal laws ...... that service member is going to be prosecuted under both the UCMJ and what ever judicial process applies elsewhere.

[iam416]

Everyone throws around "Lack of Institutional Control" generically. Obviously, PSU failed miserably as an institution and will get hammered for it. But the NCAA ought only be concerned with LOIC vis-a-vis NCAA regulations. And, in fact, that's how it's defined in NCAA rules. There are no specific NCAA rules broken in this case. Thus, there is no LOIC as far as the NCAA is concerned.

To use the "catchall" ethics is preposterous. First, the language of the provision makes clear that it applies to the actual sports. Second, the only criminal behavior identified is gambling -- and for good reason -- it relates to the sport.

Now, I won't be surprised if the NCAA uses that provision -- it'd be a massive expansion of power for the NCAA and god knows they'll do that. But, it's wrong. Oh, and so is the silly Title IX argument.

This is an A to B case. Criminal. Civil. Federal (DoE). Trying to reinvent the wheel with poppycock jurisdictional issues only serves to establish horrendous precedent.

[Jeff Buchanan]

So far, PSU is planning on remodeling the showers, but leaving joepa's statue.

I saw that. Here's the article that goes into a little bit more detail about the Board of Trustee's role:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-trustees-evaluate-freeh-report.html?_r=1

Admittedly, I come from a different frame of reference with regard to conduct unbecoming .....

In the military services, there isn't any "deliberating slowly," consideration of the "sensitivities," there is swift action from those responsible for enforcing standards of conduct and behavior. Even when the scope and impact of wrong doing is significant, it gets addressed and cleaned up quickly. Two examples, one of narrow scope and impact, one much larger ......

An officer get's drunk, earns a DUI and, after a due process hearing, he is discharged under other than honorable conditions and collects his unpaid pay and allowances, suitcase in hand, on his way out the door. I've seen this happen in a matter of hours, not days weeks or years later in order to give time to deliberate about the matter and consider the sensitivities. Guess what. Officers that want to maintain their status in the Armed Forces don't drink and drive.

Here's another, a defense contractor involved in marketing a multi-million dollar deal is found to have acted contrary to the DOD rules on contracting (like paying someone off and yes it has happened), has a due process hearing, found that the facts support the allegations of misconduct and henceforth is barred from doing business with the US Government. The business folds .... and for good reason. Something like this may take a couple of months. Guess what, contractors that want to do business with the US Government, don't try to pull this kind of shit.

It works in this particular US institution, it can work in many others if those responsible for upholding standards of conduct and behavior have the balls to take action when it is called for and swiftly. This is not hard, fellas.

The point is that, (1) it appears that the PSU Board of Trustees have some supervisory and leading role in sorting this out, correcting the deficiencies that allowed the Sandusky/Paterno affairs to happen and cleaning up the mess in front of them and (2) are going to sit back, waiting for the right "teaching moment" and let things sink in before they take any concrete action ...... like pulling the plug on Spanier and Curley whose retention as PSU employees seems completely indefensible as does, IMO, Paterno's name and effigy remaining on or within the PSU campus.

To be honest, I think this is a good study in institutional ethics and how institutions act when facing egregious misconduct within them. While I'd like to see some indication of swift and decisive action, even symbolic action, American institutions, outside of the military I would offer, are notoriously derelict in upholding important standards. I think this is a big deal, given the behavior of our government organs, financial and banking institutions of late, and looking at the bigger picture, it's an opportunity to ask, and very publicly ..... WTF?

[Tony G]

An officer get's drunk, earns a DUI and, after a due process hearing, he is discharged under other than honorable conditions and collects his unpaid pay and allowances, suitcase in hand, on his way out the door. I've seen this happen in a matter of hours, not days weeks or years later in order to give time to deliberate about the matter and consider the sensitivities. Guess what. Officers that want to maintain their status in the Armed Forces don't drink and drive.

This happens to officers they don't want to retain. I've seen them take care of the ones that are thought highly of. In fact the CO of Kings Bay lost his command but was retained after a very public dui incident.