Around the Big Ten

[froot loops]

A guy I work with just did the race across America, his knew all of the stats that Buchanan talked about. It took him a good month to get used to a regular schedule after it.

[hack]

You folks are lucky who can do the indoor-workout stuff. I simply cannot. Just can't manage the discipline to do that sorta thing. The only one I've succeeded with is swimming, and that's just recent. I can deal with 25 minutes of swimming only because depending on the stroke I can keep myself from looking at the clock to see how much time has elapsed.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Next time in the pool try concrete boots...

[iam416]

First, I'd love to do RAAM one of these days. I've actually talked about with about 7 others just batshit crazy enough to do it.

Second, Buchanan -- yes, Functional Threshold Power (FTP). All pros train and ride to their FTP. It's typically the maximum average watts you can hold for an hour, but to do the actual test you only go for 20m and take 80% of that (I think it's 80). Watt meters are, of course, available road bikes. I don't have one, but I borrowed my brother's for a few months several years ago. I think my FTP was about 315. More importantly, I did crack 1000!

But, the real measurement is Watts/Kg. That's what determines who wins the Grand Tours -- it's a measure of how well you will climb. Chris Froome is really light, but still can put out 425W for a long time. My favorite number is from Bradley Wiggins a couple years ago. He won the UCI World Championships for the Time Trial. He averaged something 32 mph for 55 minutes. His average power over those 55 minutes was 475W. I can maybe hold that for a minute or two.

And, yes, the live "race screens" are cool. You can do that from home, too. Honestly, riding hard indoors is probably a better way to train, especially in the winter. It allows you to redline. On the road, you're cautious -- if you go into the red on a climb, well, you're fucked. So, it's great training. It just sucks. I'd rather ride outside in 35 degrees than in my basement. I just got out today for a quick 20. Sunny and 48. I'll take it.

All that said, if you're going to do climbing, there's only one way to train -- on hills. It's really hard to replicate being out of gears and pushing a 50 cadence on a trainer.

[froot loops]

The guy I work with trained hard for a year and a half in preparation. He says he wouldn't do it again because of the time you need to invest in it, he kind of felt selfish during it because of all the time he was away from his kids during training and during the race itself. But he is looking towards some shorter races that have nearly as much climbing.

[iam416]

I can manage the training. The ride is about a week, so that's doable. It just costs a lot of money. Need a backer!

[froot loops]

I misspoke, I thought it was the RAAM, it was actually the Trans Am Bike Race.

[hack]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19KZZChQt20"]TOUR DE FRANCE REMI GAILLARD - YouTube[/ame]

[Jeff Buchanan]

You're right. I screwed up the Functional Threshold Power (FTP) thing calling it Total Functional Power. I've got the sheet explaining it right in front of me. Geeeze.

Going to Saline on Sunday for Thanksgiving with Sean et. al., and, of course, The Game. It's at a spin studio there called RydeOn where I learned about FTP and rode with some pretty fair cyclists .... no one is under 50 in this group. Most over 60. So, they had this screen and like I'm sweating my ass off and my lungs and legs are burning and I'm straggling back there in the back of the pack, all these old guys, and women out in front.

I'm going to do the actual 20m test next Friday. I think I can do 130-140 now that I've been working on it. I've got a chart from a web site called Intelligent Cyclist that you can calculate a rough FTP based on fitness level (1-4) age, wt. in kg and sex. For level 1 (the lowest) my FTP comes in at 122. If I were level 4 (the fittest), I'd come in at 198. So, I'm way below those upper numbers you're getting to .... ouch. I can keep the peddles going at 240 but I'm down to the 50s on pedal RPM and that might last a minute or so!

Age takes it's toll. I've got good leg strength but I go anaerobic way too quickly. You loose a ton of elasticity in your lungs as you age so, I don't exhale fully and get CO2 build-up that just makes it really uncomfortable. It sucks but I'm enjoying the challenge. You can improve on lost lung elasticity doing this.

I'll be 70 this March. I started looking at hi-intensity training like this to see if it was dangerous as you got older. There's not a shred of evidence that it is. I was surprised cause it sure felt like it was. In fact, as long as you don't have structural heart defects, this kind of stuff promotes longevity and reduces risk of heart attacks and all kinds of other bad stuff that kills you by objectively lowering inflammatory markers in your blood.

Point being, for you guys getting into your 40s or older, keep at the exercise thing and once your able go hi-intensity a couple days a week. There's good research that shows you can ward off all the typical diseases of age or at least delay their onset.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hack, that is fucking hillarious ......

That poor second guy in the video looked scared shitless, the other two got it.

Cycling is immensely popular in Europe. I would love to be immersed in that world. My duaghter, who lives in Switzerland, will likely never come back and this is one of the reasons. She and her Italian husband are huge cycling enthusiasts and ride for fun all over Europe. He races; she cheers him on.

[hack]

Isn't it?

[iam416]

Yeah, once you get into it, it's great. My brother races locally. He's a really strong climber, but the races around Ohio are mostly flat. He's a really good cyclocross racer.

I ride with tons of ricky racers. And lots of guys who are not. I've been dropped with HR at Max averaging 26 mph for 15 miles. I enjoy lunch rides with an almost 60-yr old ex-marine who is still strong as fuck. He doesn't climb any more, so it's all flat riding, but he does love to do 50 mile rides with a lunch stop half way. I like riding in the SE Ohio in the hills by myself or with anyone. It doesn't matter. I just like to ride. But there's a tremendous community out there that anyone get involved in no matter the skill level.

Your daughter is riding a great area. Instead of doing some race across America, I'd much rather fly to France and spend 3 weeks riding all over the place. When I was in California I did some unbelievable rides over 5 days. It's just a great fucking way to see places. Can't really explain it.

Anywho, as to lungs and getting old and all that -- I can start to feel it coming on a bit. I already feel noticeably less recovery than I did when I was 40 (going on 45 now). I still have lots of good years ahead of me, but my peak has probably passed absent a really heroic effort at training and diet.

In addition to FTP, it's your VO2 Max that is the other big indicator. That's your aerobic capacity. The greatest endurance athletes have VO2 Max numbers off the charts. I think the highest is some Finnish cross country skiing legend.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Yeah, VO2 Max ..... as you age it drops. I ran 10k under 33m when I was 29 and weighed 127 pounds; I trained with the University of Washington Track team as part of the USNs relationship with them and the DOD's Sports Program. The sad part was that I found out running under 5m miles was not something I could sustain. My heart just didn't pump enough volume. There are real physiologic limits to performance. I'm at 165 now and struggle to keep it there. My heart is still no bigger.

Something I've learned after realizing I can't keep up with that 28yo chick next to me, is to make my own goals and compete with myself. Just try to do well. This thing I've found with spinning and objectively measuring progress with FTP has been great. There are a lot of cyclists around here. 50 miles for lunch sounds daunting. Marines. I'll check it out.

[iam416]

There are real physiologic limits to performance

Heh. Word. Yeah, at some point, probably in your mid-30s, you end up on the downslope of your physiologic capabilities. It's very gradual for awhile and then starts to really pick up -- probably around 60 or so. Losing V02 Max, strength, etc.

That said, if you're new to something then your gains can outstrip your natural losses. I imagine that's the case for you with spinning. Personal goals are the only way to go. I mean, unless you're some sort of legitimate, at least regional-class racer.

Your very old, heh, 10K time is humming. When I was really fit, my best run was probably the half. I'm not naturally fast enough to turn over a 5K or even a 10K. But, I could hold a pace for a long time. So, I could break 90 and have a shot at winning my age group and definitely top 3 for the AG -- assuming about a 1500 person race. I also did duathlons -- run-bike-run. Those were super intense -- 5K-20K-5K. It's constant threshold for 75 minutes. I could get my 5K under 20 for both legs, but just barely. Not a natural runner. I miss those days.

[UMStan White]

3:35 in Detroit marathon