Around the Big Ten

[Wild Hoss]

There are currently 50 4* kids that have verbaled to B10 schools. Of those 50, a whopping 42 have pledged to B10 East Schools. Maryland and its 3 four-stars would be tied atop the West for most.

Overall, the B10's recruiting has picked up considerably with 4 teams looking like they'll sign top 15 classes. Again, however, all 4 are in the East.

Not really surprising...four of the BIG five winningest programs are in the East after all.

[WM Wolverine]

Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State should always be near the top 10-15 programs in CFB unless they make awful HC hires.

[iam416]

I guess the implicit point was that the East is clearly dominant now and it doesn't seem likely to change. If you put stock in "stars."

[Wild Hoss]

I guess the implicit point was that the East is clearly dominant now and it doesn't seem likely to change. If you put stock in "stars."

...this is news to you?

[froot loops]

I wouldn't put Penn State in the same group as OSU and Michigan. Let's see them prove it with another coach.

Plus in my opinion even the best programs rely on good to great hires to sustain any success. You can't just hire a solid guy and hope the brand carries the weight. Texas, Alabama, Florida and USC are examples of that, they all had extended spells of mediocrity, they weren't all awful hires from the outset maybe in hindsight.

[WM Wolverine]

I might put PSU above M or at equal... JoePa built Penn State into King status, they are the college football program in the northeast and the Mid Atlantic. When they have a good coach and winning, they get pretty much whoever they want in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland and have little need to recruit nationally...

M usually gets who who they want in their backyard but has to fight for the leftovers in Ohio, Illinois and the rest the Midwest. M has a bigger need to recruit nationally than PSU. M has more prestige nationally thanks to success from 1900 to 1950 that nobody under 75 even remembers.

[froot loops]

I'd like to see them prove it. Even with Paterno they weren't proving it, they expected to dominate the Big Ten and how many Big 10 titles have they won?

[WM Wolverine]

Paterno was a shell of his younger self by the late 90's though he kept things afloat with good coordinator, position coach hires.

[hack]

Which I think serves Froot's point.

[WM Wolverine]

M has been a shell of their former self since about '03 with three different coaches.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Right now, both PSU and M are wannabes.

That could change. But until the facts on the ground actually do change, the Big Ten's best two, maybe three or even four power programs don't include either of these teams.

Show me, Jim.

[iam416]

Penn State has the infrastructure and brand name to be elite. You still need a good coach, but PSU's ceiling is as high or nearly as high as any program in the B10. With their geography you make a good case that PSU is a "better" job than M but not quite as good as Ohio State. I expect Franklin to do a pretty good job at Penn State and for that program to be, at a minimum, a tough out each year.

I do love the fact that PSU has only won a single outright B10 title (and 2 co-champs) since joining.

But until the facts on the ground actually do change, the Big Ten's best two, maybe three or even four power programs don't include either of these teams

If you define it in terms of ceiling, then they're in the top 3. In the past 10 years there's a pretty decent case for Penn State being 3rd (OSU and Wisky 1-2). In fact, I'd put PSU at 3rd ahead of MSU over the past 10 seasons. Over the past 5, Penn State is not top 5 for non-football/child rape reasons.

[Hannibal]

Yeah Penn State is another sleeping giant. Not unlike what USC was in the 1980s. Paterno coasted for his last 13 years or so on the merits of Larry Johnson Jr. and Tom Bradley. I hope that Franklin isn't the guy to get them back there. He certainly recruits well enough though and his player development track record at Candy was outstanding.

[iam416]

I tend to think Franklin will do a pretty good job. It's a tough division, though, so "pretty good" may be 9-3 down the road.

[froot loops]

I think geography determines their ceiling. Try getting to that place, its a hassle.