Announcement

**madootra** · December 20, 2011, 01:01 AM

You and me both, Liney. There would be blood....

**Rocky Bleier** · December 21, 2011, 08:48 AM

MSU continues its obsession with Michigan:

http://www.freep.com/article/20111221/SPORTS07/112210419/Michigan-State-players-get-special-helmet-marking-four-wins-over-Michigan

**lineygoblue** · December 21, 2011, 10:20 AM

Good for them.

Now, if they can just find a good tattoo parlor in East Lansing, they can trade those babies for some pretty neat tattoos ....

If not, .. they can look at those helmets while they sit at home watching Michigan play in the Sugar Bowl ...

**Rocky Bleier** · December 21, 2011, 11:14 AM

Prior to their 4 game streak they lost 6 in a row. I don't recall the Wolverines getting anything special. Wow.

**Paul L** · December 21, 2011, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by Rocky Bleier View Post

Prior to their 4 game streak they lost 6 in a row. I don't recall the Wolverines getting anything special. Wow.

Because it was no big deal; it's what we did pre-DickRod. I miss those years but encouraged that the payback for this four-year blip will commence soon enough; in 10 months hopefully.
Can't go another year of listening to these clowns.

**Jamie H** · December 22, 2011, 01:32 AM

Hey, now every player at MSU can proudly display that helmet in their living room and get to hear every visitor say "Wow, you played football at Baylor?" Did you play with RGIII?

**Rocky Bleier** · December 22, 2011, 12:06 PM

Yes, it was a touchdown!

Toussaint Touchdown? - Forensic Analysis | mgoblog

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/toussaint-touchdown-forensic-analysis

MGoCSI Report “The Game” has come and gone, the good guys prevailed, and our collective mindset has mostly reoriented to the future, as visions of Sugar Bowls dance in our heads. So is there any reason to rehash the already much-debated issue of the Toussaint Touchdown Takeaway? Of course there is, because such things live on in Michigan lore forever and sometimes, you have to beat a dead horse just for the sheer fun of it. Besides, I had an unsatisfied curiosity combined with some unaccustomed free time, so I set about to try to resolve the controversy once and for all. This analysis may not appeal to you unless you are almost equal parts Michigan football fanatic and geometry geek, but in the end, I believe there is an important point to be made here. To discover my purpose, you will have to read on (or cheat and jump to the end). The Evidence Speaks to Us I start with Exhibit A below, a camera view that seems to suggest that Fitz planted his knee with the ball just short of the goal line. Almost certainly, it was this view that convinced the replay official to reverse the call on the field and overturn the touchdown. The shot appears to have been taken by a crane-mounted camera hovering about 10 feet in the air just beyond the goal line. It is not an ideal angle from which to make a definitive call. The knee may or may not be in contact with the ground and the relative position of the ball is distorted slightly by the angle. (Note: for formatting reasons, I am including scaled down versions of these screen shots; full resolution captures were used for the actual analysis. Click the photos for larger versions). Exhibit A I use Exhibit A not to attempt to resolve the issue at hand, but to call attention to the item highlighted in magenta. There is a cameraman clearly visible in the shot and it is his footage that will provide the basis for further analysis. We don’t know his name (Abe Zapruder?), but we have a very good idea of the physical position of his camera. The dashed boundary line he is standing very close to runs 12 feet outside the sideline. By analyzing statistical data on the average height of college cheerleaders, we can fairly accurately estimate the center of the lens to be 5’ 4” off the ground. I estimate his standing position to be 11 feet east of the side line and 2.5 feet south of the goal line. These estimates probably place the camera position reliably within an error sphere less than 1 foot in radius. This is important as we move forward with the analysis. Let us move on to Exhibit B, which was definitively taken before Toussaint’s knee fell to earth, and Exhibit C, a shot in which he is definitely down. The time interval between these two shots is presumably 1/60th of a second, given the parameters of 720p HD video. I will focus my attention on Exhibit C. Exhibit B Exhibit C The time has come to let mathematics work its wonderful magic. Again, the viewing angle is not perfect, but because we were able to accurately determine the viewing position of the source camera, some surprisingly precise calculations are possible. The dimensions and positions of the gridiron lines and hash marks are well known and presumably accurate. The only thing I am not quite sure of is the crown of the playing surface, which appears to be about 6-9 inches at midfield. This allowed me to create a three-dimensional computer model of the playing surface and made it possible to determine the orientation of the camera (azimuth, elevation, zoom, and tilt) by matching the grid lines appearing within the frame with that of the rendered computer model. Knowing this, we can now focus on the position of the ball within the frame. A more closely-cropped view is presented in Exhibit D. The projection of the ball in the frame spans about 40 pixels. Therefore we can determine its position within the 2 dimensional space of the video frame to an accuracy of about a quarter of an inch. Exhibit D The real world has the inconvenient habit of being three-dimensional, so there is one additional parameter required to ascertain the position of the ball relative to the plane of the goal line. This would be the distance from the camera to the ball, or alternatively, the perpendicular distance from the near (Zapruder) sideline to the ball. By examining other angles from the game video and observing grid lines, hash marks, and end zone lettering, this can be determined to be about 90 feet, plus or minus 2 feet. The final calculation will be slightly sensitive to this distance, so I went ahead and determined the corresponding position of the ball over a range of two foot intervals between 88 and 92 foot distant from the sideline. The plot below (Exhibit E) shows a top down projection of the ball’s position relative to the goal line over the range of possible values. Due to the near perpendicular viewing angle from just off the goal line, the error contribution from this uncertainty is quite small (.3 inches per foot of error) and yet this is the largest source of potential error. Any imprecision in establishing camera position is largely cancelled by adjusting angles to precisely overlay grid line positions within the frame. I won’t bury you with an avalanche of error sensitivity equations; suffice it to say that I am confident that the final estimate of ball position relative to the goal line is accurate to within half an inch. Exhibit E Based on the best estimate of distance from the sideline (center ball), the results sadly report that Toussaint is holding the ball 2.5 inches short of the goal line with his knee clearly down. So, technically, the officials got the call right. Did the replay official have irrefutable evidence to overturn the call? Of course not! The ball was just inches from the goal line and he did not have the resources to make a definitive determination. Conclusion The play was so close that it was not humanly possible for an official on the field to make the call with complete certainty. The difference between touchdown and being down short of the goal line was a matter of inches and hundredths of a second. While the determination was ultimately correct, I think we can also safely claim that the replay official overstepped his authority by reversing the call on the field, based on the “irrefutable evidence” criterion and the limited technology available to him. But my real point in all of this is to call attention to the fact that making an accurate determination is possible and current technology could accomplish this in real time, using techniques very similar to those employed to superimpose the first down line over the playing field, or track pitch trajectories in a baseball game. There is no need to put sensors in the ball or anything like that and accuracy within a fraction of an inch can be achieved. Higher frame rates and faster shutter speeds (super slow motion) improve the accuracy further.Multiple camera angles help as well. Cameras already have sensors to report their positions and orientations. I am calling on companies like SportVision that do enhanced sports graphics to develop the software to provide accurate ball positioning information to the fans and, dare I say, to the replay officials so that in the future, key plays like this can be accurately adjudicated.

**Jamie H** · December 22, 2011, 06:53 PM

Actually their conclusion was that it WASN'T a touchdown, but that there was absolutely no way for the replay official to have made that judgement and the call on the field should have stood.

**entropy** · December 22, 2011, 09:06 PM

By Mike Cardano
Executive Director

Last night while at my son’s Christmas concert, I received a call from a trusted source that was rather alarming. The call came in during the concert, so I didn’t answer and let it go to voice mail. Within two minutes the phone rang again. It was the same source. He called a third time a few minutes after that. When I reached my car after the concert, I listened to the voice mail. The message was nondescript but urgent, “Mike, call me as soon as you get this. I have something you’re not gonna believe.” I’m a pretty hard guy to shock. If you grew up in NY like I did, there isn’t much you haven’t seen or heard. But every once and a while something comes along that just rattles the brain like a concussion and knocks your Aunt Connie’s socks off.

When I returned the call and started to listen to what all the hoopla was about I was instantly polarized. I was trying to put the key in the ignition to start the car, but what I was hearing incapacitated me. The source claimed that Joe Paterno is on suicide watch. My first reaction was, “Wait. Say that again?” After the comment was repeated, I thought about the context of what we were talking about. My gut told me that this was a some sort of sick joke, but my source is strictly a business acquaintance and I don’t have a type of a relationship with him where such a thing (as sick of a joke as it would have been) would be presented as a prank.
When you think about it, JoePa hasn’t exactly been on a roll of late and one could certainly understand if he was depressed. In the past two months, Paterno was diagnosed with lung cancer, broke his pelvis, had his life’s work taken away from him, and had his legacy shattered to pieces. Yesterday he turned 85, and one can only imagine the mental and physical pain he must be feeling.

Earlier on Wednesday I read a report that former Penn State star running back Lydell Mitchell had organized an effort showing support for Paterno on his birthday. About 440 of Paterno’s former Nittany Lions had signed the letter, seen here. (That number appears to be rising, see the bottom of the letter). Mitchell told the Associated Press that as of Tuesday night, Paterno wasn’t aware of the letter. I’m guessing he’s seen it by now, though. If the public has seen it, surely someone has made him aware of it by now.

Not that it isn’t a nice gesture by Mitchell and the boys, because it is, but I’m pretty certain that at this point a letter of support from Paterno’s former players isn’t enough to make him forget the problems that are plaguing him. JoePa has cancer, broken bones and a broken heart. Letters of support tend to be pretty ineffective fighting those things. There isn’t much one can do about Father Time when you’re 85 and cancer, broken bones and a broken heart become part of your life. It’s not like you can recover and get back on the horse. At 85, recovery is simply so you can make it back to the corral.

Paterno may or may not be guilty of something here, but no one is accusing him of being guilty of anything remotely close to the type of sick behavior that Jerry Sandusky is being accused of. Trying to console Paterno with that type of logic seems pointless at this stage, as my source is telling me that, “JoePa has given up the fight and he just wants the living hell to end”.

I heard someone say the other day that the Paterno brand name had been in the category of Lombardi and Wooden. Whether or not you agree with that isn’t really relevant, the point is that I can’t think of another person so revered in the public eye that faced such public disgrace and has seemingly taken it to heart so much. Bill Clinton just waited it out, and over time any humiliation he experienced became a non-issue. Tiger Woods went into hiding for awhile, and eventually time appears to have cured his transgressions as people simply have become tired of talking about his news headlines. Even O.J. Simpson eventually found his way back to the golf course until they got him for something else, although to be fair, he never appeared to be disgraced to begin with.

Everything about this Jerry Sandusky scandal from the unconscionable wrongdoing to the cover-up is disturbing. Now to find out that the wrong guy is on suicide watch is just as disconcerting. Here’s hoping that JoePa outlives Sandusky.

**Dr. Strangelove** · December 22, 2011, 11:37 PM

Don't know if anyone mentioned it, but Wisconsin is losing Paul Chryst to Pitt

**hack** · December 23, 2011, 10:14 AM

Found this interesting; does anyone know more about it?

Of the 1,200 head coaches and assistant coaches in Division I football, 16 went to the University of Iowa as undergrads. Factor in the number of coaches who worked as assistants with the program but didn't go to school in Iowa City, and the results are impressive enough for The Wall Street Journal to deem Iowa "The Harvard of Coaching." People have said similar things about Bowling Green University and the University of Miami in Ohio, which at various points have been christened "the cradle of coaches." What set Iowa apart was the sideline philosophy of Hayden Fry, now 82, who coached the team from 1979 to 1998 and developed a unique procurement system where he would solicit "certain players to serve as player-coaches for their position groups." Fry called them his "bell cows" and they were unknowingly serving in a kind of coaching intern program while still playing college ball for the Hawkeyes. If they were interested in coaching when they finished school, Fry was quick to give his former players "entry-level coaching jobs on his staff—usually as graduate assistants," a big-boost considering the usual coaching career path begins back as an assistant coach at the high school or junior high level. Players had the chance to advance quickly, and when they wanted to move to a new school, Fry proved himself "gifted at singing their praises" and selling other athletic directors on Iowa as a coaching factory during his 18 years at the school. The reputation endures. [The Wall Street Journal]

From: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/enter...changed/46572/

**hack** · December 23, 2011, 10:14 AM

Found this interesting; does anyone know more about it?

Of the 1,200 head coaches and assistant coaches in Division I football, 16 went to the University of Iowa as undergrads. Factor in the number of coaches who worked as assistants with the program but didn't go to school in Iowa City, and the results are impressive enough for The Wall Street Journal to deem Iowa "The Harvard of Coaching." People have said similar things about Bowling Green University and the University of Miami in Ohio, which at various points have been christened "the cradle of coaches." What set Iowa apart was the sideline philosophy of Hayden Fry, now 82, who coached the team from 1979 to 1998 and developed a unique procurement system where he would solicit "certain players to serve as player-coaches for their position groups." Fry called them his "bell cows" and they were unknowingly serving in a kind of coaching intern program while still playing college ball for the Hawkeyes. If they were interested in coaching when they finished school, Fry was quick to give his former players "entry-level coaching jobs on his staff?usually as graduate assistants," a big-boost considering the usual coaching career path begins back as an assistant coach at the high school or junior high level. Players had the chance to advance quickly, and when they wanted to move to a new school, Fry proved himself "gifted at singing their praises" and selling other athletic directors on Iowa as a coaching factory during his 18 years at the school. The reputation endures. [The Wall Street Journal]

From: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/enter...changed/46572/

**iam416** · December 27, 2011, 09:34 AM

Apparently, Wisky's O-Line coach will join Chryst in Pittsburgh. And Wisky has no Russell Wilson types waiting in the wings to save them.

**Dr. Strangelove** · December 27, 2011, 08:14 PM

Well, at least one bowl win for the Big10. Purdue recovers TWO onside kicks and returns another kickoff for a TD en route to a wild 37-32 win over Western Michigan.

**WM Wolverine** · December 27, 2011, 08:23 PM

I only picked 3 B10 bowl victories. As usual, B10 is playing up in too many bowl games and probably will get abuse for losing games against slightly superior competition.

Announcement

Please support the Forum by using the Amazon Link this Holiday Season

Around the Big Ten

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment