Around the Big Ten

[iam416]

Kudos to Purdue’s coach in. He’s gonna get assrailed but at least he’s speaking the truth. Rhule is getting really close, too.

BTW, Wiz, the clips from the 2021 M-UNL game are hilarious. I’ve never seen a team read screen so quickly, e.g.

[THE_WIZARD_]

UNL was stifled in the first half that game Talent...like M knew all our plays...second half was a different story...UNL should have won if not for the fumbling stumbling bumbling Adrian Martinez...

[froot loops]

Wait until Bronx Blue and Brian Cook parse the words of Rhule and Walters.

[iam416]

Lol

[THE_WIZARD_]

heh

[Jeff Buchanan]

I may have erred in singling out a post by talent that I characterized as a personal attack. Talent has an acerbic style. Over the top.

In a Hamilton and Burr dual sort of way, the challenged might have aimed to whizz a pistol ball passed the challenger's ear. Accepting the challenge without killing the challenger. Talent aims right between the eyes for the kill shot. Just who he is.

Sorry for the interruption. Carry on fuckers. Yer about to get shamed when the facts are publically disclosed. That will be fun.

[Jeff Buchanan]

This SI article was posted on the first so, it's not new news. What it does do is put center stage the irresponsibility of some of the claims wrt sign-gate. Our vocal critics that post here need to understand that it's not just biased and deluded M fans complaining about the lack of proof and the plethora of false claims.

Here's a guy - a sports writer - calling out those sports writers jumping to conclusions without facts in support of a claim or proper vetting of sources. IOW the yelling by rivals at M fans who question the factually unsupported criticism of M coaches aren't alone in defending those M guys. The yelling at M fans that have the audacity to speak in defense of the M football program and it's coaches here is well past just making fun of them. Well past sass. That yelling at M fans by our rivals who post here is no more than a repetition of the irresponsible sports writers out there making their ridiculous unsupported claims.

https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-wolverines-football-ncaa-investigation-connor-stalions-sign-stealing-jim-harbaugh-big-ten

[iam416]

Christopher Breiler is the owner and operator of The Winged Helmet and sometime contributor to SI. LOL. What, no good BronxBlue hot take to push today?

[iam416]

Look, man -- you can make your points re whether HARBAUGH**** knew or not, the seriousnees or lack thereof of the brazen cheating and a bunch of other things -- hell, even if this "technically" was legal (I think that's a terrible argument, but there's at least a fig leaf argument there).

HOWEVER, when I'm told this whole thing is based on solely on rampant speculation I immediately disregard the opinion because (a) it's so audaciously fucking false that (b) you cannot seriously respect your audience if you expect them to take that seriously. And it's the same for "everyone does it" -- Nah, man...not everyone does it.

I'll listen to lots of real arguments. What I won't do is feign courtesy in responding to absolute horseshit.

I gave you a real, fair response initially -- maybe on Friday or something. When you were in Greece. I can defend everything I said in that post to the hilt and defend it with ease.

If you want to continue to whistle past the graveyard with shit like "there are no facts or evidence that support any of this" -- then go ahead. But I'm gonna treat you accordingly.

BTW -- there were a lot of shitball false stories about Tressel and Pryor. In fact, I'm damn sure you repeated a lot of them. But there was also true stories. Using a couple wrong stories to say the entire thing is fabricated wasn't a viable play -- thought, I'd bet I at least used it to cast doubt on the true stories.

[iam416]

And if you think the B10 coaches and ADs are steaming mad because of some sort of hoax, you're honestly even further out there than I imagined.

Ohio State dominated the league for -- what -- 15 years? -- from 2006-2020? I'm sure B10 schools hated/hate them. They're not lining up to demand action against them, though. Like, this shit -- whether it was CS acting as a lone wolf or something bigger -- it clearly really angers fellow member schools.

It's almost as if these coaches seem to think that knowing exactly what play is coming is some sort of advantage -- I mean, I know that's just crazy talk -- but it's what they seem to think.

Or, I guess, the reporting is just made up.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Dismissing what is being put forward by the SI article because the author has ties to Michigan is absurd.

Arguing that I was guilty of speculation over the Tressel episode is nothing more that classic whataboutism.

The entire argument that M cheated is based on one's acceptance or rejection of a shit ton of conclusions that are unsupported by facts. Most of these are conjecture. Of course you'll argue what constitutes a fact and what doesn't and will continually add new conclusions based on your definition of a fact. Or, you'll just keep yelling the same unsupported conclusions in an attempt to shape the narrative.

I'm listening to you because for the most part you're honest but in this sign stealing case, you're just another rival shilling your view of it. Of course you are - your blood bleeds scarlet and gray. The problem I see with you is your view is based on the internet frenzy that actually makes a lot of shit up and advances it as fact - its the new world we live in with the advent of social media and it's capacity to advance lies as truth. This sign stealing case is a perfect example of how one narrative, M is cheating - based on lies, becomes reality.

It's like Hamas yelling that the hospital explosion that killed 500 Palestinians was Israel's fault. It is an entirely false premise - and subsequent facts tell the story that it is - yet if Hamas keeps yelling it loud enough it becomes a fact usually augmented by poorly informed journalists who've lost their sense of neutrality.

[iam416]

Yeah, dude -- I'm sure as fuck going to dismiss the operator of the Winged Helmet website.

Look, either you believe that CS was running an operation where he had people going to games to film signs of upcoming opponents or you don't. I think, at this point, that's established fact. You don't. So, I don't give a fuck about your opinion anymore because you have zero attachment to reality.

However, for those that do acknowledge what CS was doing, then you get into the interesting questions -- questions based, absolutely, on facts. FACTS.

But, hey, man -- if you want to say the CS stuff is all rampant speculation and witchhunt -- knock yourself the fuck out. Like I said -- it's astoundingly dishonest.

And, btw -- the OSU point isn't whataboutism -- it's a direct point about you.

[iam416]

It's worth repeating....


The facts and evidence on Staliion’s operation are significant. It’s brazen cheating. There isn’t a second choice. It is.

It is blindingly obvious that M used Stalions including against OSU. So, M unequivocally broke the rules and used the results of that rule-breaking in games. This really is beyond dispute. If you wanna dispute it and burn your credibility to the ground the knock yourself the fuck out.

Whether you can directly tie that to HARBAUGH!!! is, at least, debatable. As of now, it’s circumstantial and inference-based. I happen to think the inferences are obvious (like, you’re going to trust this guy for calls without vetting how he knows?).

The best counter-argument (IMO) is the one Mike makes which is it didn’t matter. My view on that is it’s speculation intended to deflect from the facts, but I certainty appreciate the argument.

But to say this is a hatchet job is Mgoblog/Sam Webb levels of delusion. And I mean that entirely.

As for punishment, I’m at about 60/40 they’ll face some sort of meaningful consequences. But if nothing of note happens other than Stalions getting all the blame I wouldn’t be surprised. I’m at about 40/60 anything happens this year and about 5/95 anything happens to affect M’s CFP aspirations.

I would be surprised if HARBAUGH!!! is coaching M in 2024. I think he’s going abandon what he knows are going to be several rough years.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Look, I don't think I've ever said that Stalion's sign stealing and scouting activities were legal. They weren't and there's no disputing it. At the beginning and as accusations surged, I might have argued what he did was legal and that he operated in a gray area of applicable rules. As more information came to light, it became clear it wasn't legal.

I'm not surprised you'll give weight to the argument Mike advances. Its a good one.

What I have said is that there's a very good chance that the M coaching staff did not know the extent of his activities and that Stalion lied about them when he interviewed and was hired by Harbaugh as an analyst. I think the M legal staff and any investigations M did in house have already established that.

M principals and Harbaugh shot down the rumors that M had "rescinded" it's contract extension. That is a clear signal that these guys did investigate and think he's clear on these sign-stealing and cheating accusations. IOW, the lawyers and compliance guys think Stalion's illegal activities can't be tied back to Harbaugh.

Where the "every CFB team does this" argument bears some application in this case is that first, it is acknowledged that it does happen and it's legal with caveats. Second, with coaches knowing this, one would think that these coaches would take steps to protect their signs. Instead, interviewed BT coaches seem unanimous in their surprise and outrage of M's actions.... at least that's what's being reported and of course there are no coaches names associated with interviews I'm referring to here they gave to the press on this subject.

The story now has a life of it's own, so it's not going away until there is some finality to it brought about by an NCAA investigation and public disclosure of their findings and recommendations. If the results of these investigations exonerate Harbaugh, we'll just have to stomach the outcry. It could be balanced by discovery of details wrt the PI firm that is alleged to have hacked M's computer system (finding nothing) and then provided their findings to the NCAA. Then well get to play the whataboutism game as all of you fuckers eat a big bowl of dick.

It's very obvious that you and I are operating in two different realities. If your's pans out to be more accurate than mine, I'll admit I was wrong. I trust you'll do the same.
.

[iam416]

If you accept that CS was stealing signs and that it was against the rules then you've accepted that there are a lot of facts that support this story. The tickets to games, the videos other B10 schools have of his operatives filiming signs, CS on the sidelines, etc. LOTS. OF. FACTS.

Then you also have to accept that M used CS's operation in-game. That's blatantly clear, too, from LOTS. OF. FACTS.

So, you have to accept that CS was stealing signs, it was illegal and that M used the proceeds of CS's illegal operations in-game. That's blindingly obvious. That's a real goddamn basis to write stories. LOTS. OF. FACTS.

What you don't have -- as of yet -- is direct evidence that people above CS knew what he was doing. I've conceded that point many times over. I've also laid out why it is, based on these facts, I happen to reach that conclusion through a massively reasonable inference and massively reasonable critical throught. If you're holding out for direct evidence or maintaining that CS is a lone wolf or that HARBAUGH**** and his coordinators relied on CS and his ability to present them opponent's signs prior to the game w/o asking any questions as to how that was possible -- so be it. I disagree, but that's at least fig leaf tenable.

Again -- what I object to -- in no fucking uncertain terms -- is pretending that this is all some sort of witchunt. A M-staff member cheated. M used that M-staff member's efforts in-game. That's known.