Around the Big Ten

[Dr. Strangelove]

Don't you want us to look like Clemson circa 1999?

[iam416]

I don't think I want OSU to ever look like any Clemson team, including the 1981 team. Though, I do have an affinity for Homer Jordan thanks to Bill Walsh CFB back in the day.

Speaking of Clemson, Boyd was so close to being a Buckeye. Dammit.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Rodriguez is an excellent OC .... that is all.

If .... and that is a big if, he gets hired again as a HC, he better ask for and be given an open check book so he can bring in a staff of assistants that can keep him afloat.

If he's willing to step outside his circle of freinds to find decent coaches, I think he is going to find it hard to find good people to work for him given the debacle at Michigan.

If I were a great Division II DC, or an assistant coordinator with an up and coming rep, for example, I'd think long and hard about getting into a situation like that. RR's going to have a tough roe to hoe finding his way back into the college HC ranks, I would think.

[entropy]

and there is nothing wrong with being one of the best OC in the game.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Clemson is about to do their usual annual implosion after they've tricked you into thinking they are good again.

Firmly agree with you talent, I don't ever want to be rooting for a team that looks anything like they do on offense. Been there, done that and learned from it.

[iam416]

Right. RichGOD is, in fact, a very good OC. The problem, IMO, with all of those offense is that they do their defenses no favors. The tempo thing is all well and good if you're firing on all cylinders, but it can produce far too may 3 and outs. And if you're defense isn't stout, that's problematic.

That's why I said I prefer Dantonio's style to Urban Meyer's. I want a goddamn FB on the field for the bulk of the plays. Call me old fashioned.

[entropy]

urban had the power running game with Tebow. If you have a spread w/o power, you lose the big games. You have to convert 3 and 2's.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Theres some very good analysis floating about out there that pumps up the sort of up-tempo offense that RR, Kelly of Oregon fame and others run that guns for 70+ plays a game, provides a high number of points per possession and can score quickly. Its very convincing but seems to fail the military ruggedness test spectacularly.

I don't know why this is but the fragility of these offenses and the apparent lack of football mentality that creeps into a teams character when they are coached up like this seems to indicate this approach is going to fade and some happy medium between Loyd-Ball and basketball on grass is going to emerge.

I'd like to think Hoke, Borges and Mattison are hitting on it with the Michigan team they are building.

[iam416]

urban had the power running game with Tebow. If you have a spread w/o power, you lose the big games. You have to convert 3 and 2's.

Right. Or even 3rd and inches. Watching some spread teams line up 5 yards in the backfield on 3rd and inches when a QB sneak will do just fine always amazes me.

There's very few things I appreciate more in a head coach then grasping the surest way to get a first down. One of Tressel's "great" play calling sequences was against Miami in the Fiesta. They had it 3rd and goal at the one with Clarett in the backfield. But Coach Tressel knew the risk of handing the ball off and knew that two straight QB sneaks would get the job done. And it did, just barely.

[iam416]

Buchanan:

Football remains a fairly simple game. You block. You tackle. You don't turn the ball over. Now, there's no doubt the offensive game has changed over the past 30 years. It's hard, IMO, to understate the impact Bill Walsh had on the game (to the extent you credit him with the WCO). But the WCO is fundamentally premised on ball control. At it's core, it's not particularly radical.

I think the spread stuff -- plays per game, etc -- diverges from the core of what wins at this game. Just like, e.g., the infernal run and shoot nonsense of the David Klingler/Andre Ware days.

As Entropy noted, Florida and Auburn were able to win with spread-type offense thanks to supremely talented QBs that could provide a power running game. The vast majority of spread teams lack this element and it kills them against good defenses. And, numbers be damned, I still value TOP, especially if my defense isn't particularly great. I still think there's something profoundly soul-sapping about 16 play drives that you just don't get with big plays. When Wisky shoved it up OSU's ass last year in the 1st half, it was so goddman frustrating. It has to take it's toll on the defense. Like you said, "military ruggedness".

[entropy]

what amazes me is how many people talk about the SEC as if they are this league with modern offenses. They are not. The best in that league are very traditional, RB heavy. They know the best way to put a team away is a long drive in the 4th that seals the victory. They also know 3rd and shorts turn into wins as easily as they turn into losses.

[iam416]

Yeah. LSU and Bama are both neanderthal teams. I'm really looking forward to that bloodbath. I'm not sure who will win, but I'm fairly certain it will reaffirm my faith in old school football.

[entropy]

I shouldn't have said the best offenses, but rather the best teams

[iam416]

November 5th. Hopefully it's a night game. Ohio State plays Indiana to commence the easy part of their schedule, so no real worries on that end. I should be able to enjoy the day of CFB and cap it off with an epic hatefest. And maybe M will do me a solid and find a way to lose at Iowa.

[lineygoblue]

and there is nothing wrong with being one of the best OC in the game.

Agreed. Charlie Weis is proving that at Florida, and he did it before at New England. Some guys are just better off being the second banana.

And you'll probably get your wish RE Mich v Iowa, Talent. The Hawkeyes will have all their problems sorted out by then, and we just don't seem to be able to get past those pink locker rooms ...