Around the Big Ten

[iam416]

I think you underestimate the OSU-M ties. While the on-field rivalry is vitriolic, both ADs are money-driven and both realize the massive value of the OSU-M rivalry.

Anyway, I'm still very much of the mind that UT won't be able to push around the B10. I also firmly believe that the folks at UT that are gung ho on the B10 are very much interested in the academic value of the relationship. While I have no idea how to quantify it and largely agree with those who pooh-pooh it, it's perceived value is very real.

Again, this isn't a situation where Texas has any chance of the conference needing UT more than UT needs the conference. In fact, I think it will be the opposite.

It's a different world from the 80s or even 90s when ADs like UNL and OU could wield as much influence as they did. They still carry a great brand name, but market value is marginal. The market access UT brings is huge and, frankly, the market access the B10 offers UT is huge.

I understand that Nebraska fans still harbor hateful grudges against Texas on account of their duplicitous and misdemeanorin' past, but I don't share their concerns if they were in the B10. In others, Hoss and Entrop: GFY! :-)

[entropy]

talent... I don't underestimate Texas' mode of operation...

[iam416]

Your irrational hatred of Benign Bevo sickens me.

[Wild Hoss]

Again, this isn't a situation where Texas has any chance of the conference needing UT more than UT needs the conference. In fact, I think it will be the opposite.

Here is your fatal, mistake: assuming that there is anything Texas? views as needing more than it needs Texas.

It?s a mistake for anybody to believe they are too big for Texas to consider trying to push around. When it comes to revenue and market, there is nobody bigger than they are, and believe me, they?re aware of it. They?ll make sure you are too...after you?ve reached a level of commitment to them where they have leverage.

Everything will be hunky-dory initially, until there?s a point of no return reached. Say, the B1G has agreed to bring in OU, KU or whomever else to balance out the membership with Texas. Then the hammer falls.

?Oh, by the way, before we go any further...we have some concerns about X. We?ll need to get that agreed to before we can go any further, or else we might have to look at staying in the Big 12.? It?ll be something small initially, then they?ll work their way up toward special treatment, slowly moving the goalposts, always working surreptitiously behind the scenes before making any move. Always reminding of how much you need their growing population base.

Believe me, they won?t look at Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State as equals. They?ll always think of themselves as bigger, richer, more attractive, more important. Its an ingrained portion of the state psyche.

[Tony G]

Its an ingrained portion of the state psyche.

Short of people from NYC, Texans are the most obnoxiously arrogant folks in the US.

[iam416]

We’ll need to get that agreed to before we can go any further, or else we might have to look at staying in the Big 12.”

My point all along has been that this is an easy bluff for the B10 to call. It's not so much what UT thinks. It's reality. The problem the SWC had was that UT's worldview matched reality. The problem UNL and the B12 had was that UT's worldview was certainly close to reality initially and clearly reality at the end and now.

Whatever UT thinks, the reality is that the B10 will have leverage IF UT comes aboard. They're obviously not going to reform the B12. They're obviously not going independent. They're not going to the P12. Whatever "alternative" UT lays at the feet of the B10 will be, guaranteed, a huge paycut. Period. HUGE.

If the B10 adds UT + Fuckstick JC, they're in for an epic TV contract.

Moreover, as I keep saying, the academic side of UT sees (rightly or wrongly) a huge value in the B10.

In short, whatever the ultimatum, it's a money loser for UT AND the B10 will easily carry on.

I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating the nefarious plots of UT. BUT, I think you're underestimating the power and allure of the B10.

[hack]

I've noticed in Texans some striking similarities to Saudis, Nigerians, Bruneians and others from countries that would be medieval were it not for what's underground. It's a different kind of life and perspective when you extract wealth vis-a-vis creating it. You tend to be more superstitious and less empirical. And you're used to having people kiss your ass.

Talent, you are presuming Texans are going to accurately gauge their leverage. They may or may not.

[iam416]

Talent, you are presuming Texans are going to accurately gauge their leverage. They may or may not.

Well, you're right, I can't say they will unequivocally. I do think that UT has smart enough folks running shit there to figure out value. I think they'll have a pretty good idea of where the gold mine is.

Now, where I may be wrong is that UT may not care about the gold mine. They may give up MILLIONS to call their own shots. Of course, if that's their underlying philiosophy, they'll never leave the B12, which they own. So, IMO, if they leave the B12, they've shown their cards.

Further, and I can't stress this enough -- they're in an arms race with aTm. Right now aTm is making huge gains on UT. If things continue as they are then its very possible aTm could surpass UT. Whatever other interests UT has, I feel pretty confident that UT will do whatever the fuck it takes to make sure this doesn't happen. And the ONLY affirmative step they can take to nip this in the bud is the B10. That's it. Now, they could stick in the B12 and hope aTm's momentum stalls, but that's a passive act.

[Wild Hoss]

Short of people from NYC, Texans are the most obnoxiously arrogant folks in the US.

LOL. I had a phone call from somebody in Manhattan a few hours ago and she made the comment ?Not much going in Kansas? during the course of conversation. I bit my tongue from replying with some comment about a lack of people flying airplanes into our buildings...but just barely.

[hack]

I think smarts succumbs to hubris a heck of a lot of the time, and that's in places unlike Texas where the ``we're awesome by birthright'' mentality is notably strong. Texans are especially prone. So, we'll see. You make a good point about A&M as a factor. If that's really the case, then Texas isn't going to stand for that of course.

[Wild Hoss]

Well, you're right, I can't say they will unequivocally. I do think that UT has smart enough folks running shit there to figure out value. I think they'll have a pretty good idea of where the gold mine is.

Now, where I may be wrong is that UT may not care about the gold mine. They may give up MILLIONS to call their own shots. Of course, if that's their underlying philiosophy, they'll never leave the B12, which they own. So, IMO, if they leave the B12, they've shown their cards.

Further, and I can't stress this enough -- they're in an arms race with aTm. Right now aTm is making huge gains on UT. If things continue as they are then its very possible aTm could surpass UT. Whatever other interests UT has, I feel pretty confident that UT will do whatever the fuck it takes to make sure this doesn't happen. And the ONLY affirmative step they can take to nip this in the bud is the B10. That's it. Now, they could stick in the B12 and hope aTm's momentum stalls, but that's a passive act.

Dude, ATM is not going surpass UT in any arms race, or war for popularity, in any foreseeable future; that would akin to making the same claim about Michigan State v Michigan. The discrepancies in finance and prestige is enormous.

The Aggies have an edge in current "hipness" but that will vanish shortly after Texas hires its next good coach...or ATM hires its next bad one. Hell, Johnny Manziel is killing it off by the day.

[Wild Hoss]

If the B10 adds UT + Fuckstick JC, they're in for an epic TV contract.

...and therein lies their bargaining chip. Once the eyes of the Big Ten gloss over with all the potential money from adding UT, they have leverage. That is exactly how it went down in the B12, except that now Texas is in a better bargaining position than 1994. Now they are the wealthiest, highest-earning program in the country.

All I can say is that based off the Big 12 experience, Texas would not just assimilate into the Big Ten as one of the boys. They'd negotiate something special for themselves, if for no other reason than to set a precedent to do so again in the future. Its how they operate.

[hack]

They'd negotiate something special for themselves, if for no other reason than to set a precedent to do so again in the future. Its how they operate.

I totally believe that. Those convinced of their own supremacy in spite of the facts need constant affirmation. (And by that I mean to say nothing about ``That state up north'', brain tumors that have names, or anything other than Texas and Texans).

[entropy]

Dude, ATM is not going surpass UT in any arms race, or war for popularity, in any foreseeable future; that would akin to making the same claim about Michigan State v Michigan. The discrepancies in finance and prestige is enormous.

The Aggies have an edge in current "hipness" but that will vanish shortly after Texas hires its next good coach...or ATM hires its next bad one. Hell, Johnny Manziel is killing it off by the day.

Agree. The aggies were the team in the early 90's. that disappeared fast.

Texas is basically ND when it comes to ego. The one thing I will disagree with is the pac10 vs big12. PAC would be the threat. They have no options but the big12. Texas knows that..

[entropy]

...and therein lies their bargaining chip. Once the eyes of the Big Ten gloss over with all the potential money from adding UT, they have leverage. That is exactly how it went down in the B12, except that now Texas is in a better bargaining position than 1994. Now they are the wealthiest, highest-earning program in the country.

All I can say is that based off the Big 12 experience, Texas would not just assimilate into the Big Ten as one of the boys. They'd negotiate something special for themselves, if for no other reason than to set a precedent to do so again in the future. Its how they operate.

My guess on the first ask.... Rotating BIG championship games in Dallas.