Around the Big Ten

[Jeff Buchanan]

......As to future "value" of PSU.....suppose they do get the dreaded LOIC.......the program becomes a shitstain......other programs become irrelevant.....fans outside of Happy Valley stop caring, Tv #'s drop......then we're saddled with a shit school.

Even people that count have short memories these days but I'm in your camp. Tossing them has to be in the discussion.

If I were Delaney, I'd arrange a conference call of Presidents and see where they stood and I suspect the majority would be willing to consider tossing them. Next I'd talk directly, face to face, and tell the current President of PSU, that option is not off the table, you've got a month to make me and the other presidents think we should take it off the table.

I think it is important to make a point that the kind of conduct that PSU's former program administrators and head coach pursued is not demonstrative of the kind of character and integirty we expect among Big Ten members.

[madootra]

Exactly......use the possibility of expulsion to make them step up. Because right now, they seem content with riding this out, paying a few million, and pretend it was a few bad apples.

[iam416]

I highly doubt a majority of B10 schools want PSU kicked out. And it would obviously cost the B10 tons of money. And even assuming the NCAA does something, and I don't think they should in any way, LOIC isn't going to send PSU into the abyss.

Personally, I rate ND and Texas joining the B10 ad more likely than PSU getting expelled, and Indiana playing in the Rose Bowl next year as far more likely than either.

[hack]

Agreed.

[entropy]

The issue of whether the NCAA should get involved in the Penn State scandal connected to the school's handling of the Jerry Sandusky situation is an intriguing one. Many have reasoned that no matter how distasteful the actions of Penn State's leadership may have been, this still is not an NCAA matter or that these were real-world crimes, which are above the NCAA's head.

On Monday, CNN reported that part of the investigation run by former FBI Direction Louis Freeh is examining how Joe Paterno pushed to handle scandalous issues internally and that could spark the NCAA's entry point into this matter. In focus: the university e-mails explicitly illustrating the level of power and influence the long-time football coach had that extended far beyond just football at Penn State.

In a 2005 e-mail from Dr. Vicky Triponey, then vice president of student affairs in charge of disciplining students, to athletic director Tim Curley and others, she summarizes a meeting she had with Paterno in which he tells her that he wants to be the sole disciplinarian of his players. She criticizes Paterno for wanting to limit the Campus Code of Conduct to incidents that take place on campus and keeping disciplinary matters involving his players private. "Coach Paterno would rather we NOT inform the public when a football player is found responsible for committing a serious violation of the law and/or our student code -- despite any moral or legal obligation to do so," according to her e-mail.

In the same e-mail, Triponey, also refers to calls her office was receiving from coaches and others. "I must insist that the efforts to put pressure on (Student Affairs) and try to influence our decisions...simply MUST STOP," she writes.

Curley, in a subsequent e-mail, acknowledges that Triponey's take on the conversation with Paterno is accurate.

Triponey replies to Curley, "I know you are caught in the middle of a very difficult situation," an apparent reference to appeasing Paterno.

In a subsequent e-mail to then-Penn State President Graham Spanier she is more blunt: "I am very troubled by the manipulative, disrespectful, uncivil and abusive behavior of our football coach," she writes.

These emails show that the university had a chain of command, but how the head football coach tried to manipulate it. And in light of everything else that has since come out about Penn State, how might these emails now be viewed by the NCAA since this is related to the Sandusky case, yet it's also not directly connected because it goes to the heart of something beyond that? And, do these emails resonate even more now than when they first came to light because the culture of Penn State football and Joe Paterno is viewed in a much different way than it was a year ago?

“This could definitely be perceived as an extra benefit and yes, it could bootstrap into LOIC (Lack of Institutional Control) without even having to address Sandusky,” says Dr. David Ridpath, Assistant Professor of Sports Administration at Ohio University. “It would set a precedent, but that is normal for the NCAA. I told a reporter it would have to be something other that Jerry Sandusky -- this is it for the NCAA if they want to do something and it does give them a bit of cover.

“I think the more it is not Jerry Sandusky, the better and they can certainly go this route. The Freeh report will be the tipping point.”

Keep in mind, this wouldn't be the first time the NCAA created a precedent tied to a high-profile case. It did that with both the Reggie Bush and Cam Newton investigations. As I wrote a few weeks back, the NCAA's lists of acts that demonstrate a lack of institutional control are tied to violation of NCAA rules, not real-world crimes -- but the NCAA brass is on record as saying it would be keeping an eye on how things unfolded with the Penn State investigation. Well, now we're getting into the investigation of the culture at Penn State.

“In this case there is an opening at least for potential NCAA violations based upon the emails and the culture of Paterno," explains Ridpath. "Technically if someone is found "guilty" of a student code violation, they could be suspended from extra curricular activities (I harken back to my days being banished to Judicial Affairs where I was the Vicky Triponey at Marshall). So if Paterno is handling punishment and players are still being allowed to play when a normal student might have been suspended from Band or a fraternity (or school for that matter) for similar violations, then certainly it can be categorized as an extra benefit and even a competitive advantage as potentially players who should have been suspended may have still played. Then it could play into LOIC without even addressing Sandusky and the NCAA feels like it is doing something, and in many ways, they are addressing a prevailing culture throughout ICA where powerful coaches are calling the shots on things well outside their purview.

“They (the NCAA) might do something without realizing how much they can empower others on campus, which will really shed a light on how “campus governance” works with a big-time coach. I think this is a good thing, a very good thing for institutional control -- but will the NCAA let it happen? Maybe, maybe not. Someone is going to realize this, and at least state behind the scenes that a big can of worms will be opened because so many coaches exist and control like Paterno did.”

[Jeff Buchanan]

If the NCAA had any real power that was not diluted by political manipulation, LOIC based on the issues this article raises, would be a slam dunk.

It is really a shame that the kind of shit that was going on at PSU involving Paterno didn't come out at osu ..... I have no doubt, NONE, that tressel wielded much the same power on campus that Paterno did, he acted in the same manner as Paterno did to protect his players from equal punishment under the same rules of student conduct and he got caught red handed lying about it.

If ohio's Attorney General had appointed someone like Louis Freeh to look into what went on at osu with tressel, gee and smith, you can be damn sure, it would have been discovered that the same sort of crap paterno pulled for 40 years at PSU was the same kind of crap tressel and his minions were involved in at osu. It's sickening and the writer above may be referring to exactly that "can of worms" in his last paragraph.

It is instructive that the NCAA, in all of its "high profile cases" has had to rely on information discovered by either federal or state authorized investigations to uncover the real dirt in CFB.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[lineygoblue]

I have no doubt, NONE, that tressel wielded much the same power on campus that Paterno did

At the opening of a certain presser, didn't the ohio AD state that he hoped that Tressel didn't fire HIM?

[iam416]

It is really a shame that the kind of shit that was going on at PSU involving Paterno didn't come out at osu

Just. Stunning.

If ohio's Attorney General had appointed someone like Louis Freeh to look into what went on at osu with tressel, gee and smith, you can be damn sure, it would have been discovered that the same sort of crap paterno pulled for 40 years at PSU was the same kind of crap tressel and his minions were involved in at osu.

Just. Stunning.

Even for a pure flame, that's some outlandishly fucked up stuff. M men.

[madootra]

#TheTruthHurtsGasbags

[iam416]

#wishingforpedophiliacoverup -- M men

Stay obsessed, champ.

#pwned

[madootra]

LOL......how fucking clueless.......

[Rob F]

Just. Stunning.



Just. Stunning.

Even for a pure flame, that's some outlandishly fucked up stuff. M men.

Talent, if I were to just read Jeff's post by itself, I would be inclined to agree with you. It does appear to be "flame" material if it stands alone.

On the other hand...

Did you read AND comprehend the post immediately before Jeff's, the one by Entropy regarding the Freeh investigation into the Penn State Athletic department/Football team/Paterno "culture" in which the head coach (JoePa) called the shots, governed by a separate set of "rules" and "discipline" in which JoePa wanted no oversight? Once you look at the situations at PSU and oiho in that light, the similarities that Jeff was trying to point out become apparent.

Not that I expect you to get it...

[lineygoblue]

#nomorewalkoverwinsforohio

[Optimus Prime]

There surely must be a special place in Hell for predatory coaches like Sandusky and Tressel. Had the resources and the authority of the State been used to investigate Tressel, Jim & Jerry would be cellmates today.

The Ohio Valley Penitentiary Club