Around the Big Ten

[THE_WIZARD_]

Every program is a dirty filthy rotten fucking cheater.

[Mike]

I guess I just don't see 24/23 as a significant difference in offensive production so then I go to individual performance. I'd maybe give a little more credit to OSU's defense for forcing Michigan to settle for 3 FGs in the second half instead of the usual swiss cheese run defense we'd grown accustomed to.

[Mike]

Every program is a dirty filthy rotten fucking cheater.

Is Rhule digging into the couch cushions for spare change to buy a QB yet? I hear they're expensive these days.

[iam416]

McCord had 10 possessions and scored 24. Stroud had 13 possessions not counting one at the end of the half and scored 23. And Stroud only put up 3, for some reason, in the 2H. McCord was not only more consistent in scoring points throughout the game, he scored points at a SIGNIFICANTLY higher possession rate (35% higher than Stroud). You may not agree with any of that -- and whatever -- I agree with you on nothing these days, I guess. But that's why I'm saying McCord and OSU were better in 2023 and than Stroud and OSU was in 2022. And against, IMO, a better defense.

[iam416]

And lest there be any attempt to move the goalposts or change football fields, I am very much not saying McCord is a better player than Stroud. Stroud was borderline generational. He was spectacularly good at OSU and appears to be on that arc in the NFL. That makes Minter's 2H genius in 2022 all the more genius.

McCord needs to be half a second faster processing his reads and locks on to his primary way too often. He's good, but he's just good. That's enough to put up 24 and move the ball pretty consistently against what some think is the best M defense since at least 2016 and maybe 1997. But, he needs to ake another step forward if OSU wants to win another CFP, and I'm not sure he can do that. Next year I'd see OSU falling into the 5-12 range, winning one game and losing the next.

[Mike]

Fair enough.

And Stroud only put up 3, for some reason, in the 2H

I know you want to discredit Michigan's wins the last two years. You guys need an excuse other than you just got pummeled. I can appreciate that. But why do these arguments always seem to only apply to the second half of games? If Michigan "knew every play" as some here like to suggest, why did they dither around in the first halves? 14-13 in 2021 and down 20-17 last year. There are so many factors involved in the outcome of a game but whenever Michigan plays a really good stretch of football, the fans of the team we beat attribute that to Stalions' sign decoding. It reminds me of the old George Carlin joke about the football players who always thank Jesus after a win but never blame him when they drop the ball.

So if I understand you correctly, your argument is that since Stroud is better than McCord and OSU was slightly better offensively in 2023 than in 2022, that is proof that Michigan's sign stealing was the reason for that difference now that Stalions is gone.

I suppose that could be A factor but I don't think it's a major one. There's a lot intangibles that go into The Game as well. I'm fairly certain that all those OSU players who went through the program without any gold pants really REALLY wanted that one bad on Saturday. Ryan Day really REALLY wanted that one so he doesn't have to listen to people calling him John Cooper 2.0 for another year. Conversely, Michigan was once again without their head coach due to a weak commissioner being strong-armed by coaches and ADs of the teams we pummel every week. The off-field drama has been an absolute clownshow for the last 6 weeks yet Michigan perseveres.

That people want to point to Michigan covering the point spread in a win over the #2 (at the time, of course) team in the country as some sort of evidence that we're not as good without Stalions roaming the sideline is such a high compliment. Thank you. "Yeah, you guys beat an 11-0 OSU team AGAIN, but it wasn't as dominant as the last two, so... cheaters!"

Michigan football in 2023: Being judged on style points in wins over top 10 rivals. Undisputed King of the Big Ten!

[iam416]

A one-off football game comparision is never dispositive. I would use "curious." Beyond that, I'm not going into any of this again.

My point was and remains that McCord's 2023 OSU team scored significantly more points per possession (ok, I modified that from scored more points in my original post, to significantly more points per possession) against a better M defense on the road than Stroud did at home in 2022.

Whatever you take from that you take from that. One thing you *could* take from it, e.g., is that McCord might not be awful. Or that having Henderson fully healthy instead of a 5th string RB mattered (that loses it's power when looking at what they did to Georgia w/o no real RB). Or it could just be that it was happenstance.

Take from it what you will. But, what I said is absolutely true.

[Tom W]

Maybe ohio just refuses to acknowledge that they aren't invincible. Maybe they have QBs that flinch when that gets questioned.

Or, maybe they're just not immune from getting punked by a team that was better prepared when you played them.

These things happen. It's not because of cheating.

The real world can be tough sometimes.

[iam416]

Ohio State hasn't had an undefeated season since 2002. I rather doubt that anyone OSU fans thinks they're invincible. And that team would have been absolutely savaged by the 2019 OSU team.

What that has to do with McCord being better than Stroud against M is, again, not clear to me.

[Tom W]

"McCord" didn't lose to Michigan.
"Stroud" didn't lose to Michigan. Twice.

Ohio State lost to Michigan. All three times.

It's not just about whether "McCord" or "Stroud" was better. Or, because the other guys "cheated".- or got caught in a ludicrous scheme.

Sandbagging aside, you just assumed that you would always beat Michigan. Because you were used to it. You had a better recruiting network and got better skill players. You had smarter coaches, who seemed to take this game more seriously - and, maybe, you had better schemes for scouting (but not "cheating")

So, you just can't wrap your head around how they could ruin EVERYTHING.. three years in a row.

Sorry, can't help you there.
Not Sorry..

[iam416]

Just because you type shit that says "this is [talent] thinks or assumes" doesn't make it so. I'm pretty clear on my opinions. You can lie all you want. Is what it is.

[Tom W]

Yes, it's 30 > 24.

[iam416]

I don't think I've said otherwise. At least you're not lying about me. In that post.

[Hannibal]

Talent probably still has enough PTSD left over from the Cooper years to not automatically expect a win over UM. I know that I’ll never expect that on our side again.

i wonder how many times we’d have to beat OSU before I don’t feel like a complete doomer before The Game.

The mood for next year’s Game will be interesting. First time since the Carr era that we will go into it not desperately needing a win.

[Tom W]

First, it was "Cheaters". And, that's sort of funny, because we all know that everybody does, in fact, do things that aren't exactly "not cheating"- and well, the scheme that Stalions came up with was straight out of Wyle E. Coyote and Get Smart. It WAS funny. But it didn't break us.

So, now it's "Liars". WTF? Sure, everybody lies, too. But, that's just the desperate call to help from someone who HAS been broken. Just stop and go away.